Going through evictions is never fun, for the landlord or the tenant. Unfortunately, most landlords don’t know their rights and don’t understand the process. The Ontario Tenant Act is actually pretty useful once you get a feel for it. On this episode of The Your Life! Your Terms! Show, we chat with Licensed Paralegal Kelly Hawkes to break down what you need to know and how it all works, from the first missed rent payment, right to getting vacant possession of your property. You can reach Kelly at 905-466-3542.
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Transcript
Hey everyone, it’s Tom Karadza. And on this episode of The your life, your terms show we brought in Kelly Hawkes, who’s an absolute pit bull in the legal world. She is a paralegal that we have used in the past ourselves for various different things, real estate and otherwise. And the reason we brought her on to this episode of the show is we wanted to go through how to properly and professionally evict a tenant in Ontario, we get this asked a lot. And it usually comes from two places that an investor is scared to invest in their very first property because they’re scared and they’ve heard horror stories of dealing with tenants. And most of that kind of stuff is false, which we address in this episode, or they just don’t know the process in general, they could they have no clue of how the process works. And they’re an existing landlord, and really just don’t understand how you go about it. So we cover everything, we try to start from the very beginning, until the very end of the process. And we did our best to cover all the little questions and angles that might come up when you’re evicting attendant and absolute. There’s absolute endless amount of different things that can happen when you’re renting a property. So we didn’t cover every imaginable situation that can occur. But we wanted to cover most of the stuff that happens. And if you have never been through this process, you should understand that whenever a tenant eviction story hits, you know, one of the newspapers in Canada or in the Toronto area, it’s always the absolute horror stories. Generally, when you’re following the process process, it is pretty well laid out. So really, this is our attempt to share that process. Even if you’re an experienced landlord, I think you’ll pick up some tips and some ideas from Kelly, she addresses some concepts that I wasn’t really aware of myself never had to deal with it. So it was good to hear from that. So I really think you’ll pick up a lot of different things from listening to Kelly’s discussion through this. This is maybe one of our less informal talks, you know, we usually just have informal talks on this podcast, this will a little more structure to us trying to get through an actual topic from start to finish. That sounds funny, we should probably try to get through actual top topics most of the time on this podcast. But that’s generally not how we operate, we usually just have discussions that go all over the place. It sounds funny to describe that. And listen, if you are listening to this, over the next few years, it is going to get crazier with a rental properties and tenants in Ontario. And I just want to explain something there isn’t a population explosion going on in this area, you can get our latest report Ontario’s population explosion, THE UNTOLD STORY AT Rockstar inner circle.com forward slash reports, you should check out some of the data that’s happening here. I think all landlords all investors should be aware of this information. And it is stuff that doesn’t seem to be discussed in the media very often. But it’s going to greatly affect the real estate demand in this area over the next 10 years. So if you’re if you’ve been investing for five or 10 years, and you think prices are already getting crazy, or demand is already getting getting crazy, wait for the next 10 years. I mean, we really feel with the economic policies that are in place and the demand that’s coming our way, this is going to be really interesting as a real estate investor. So there’s great opportunity ahead. And now just to switch back to the topic of this podcast, I just want to explain something really clearly is that we believe whenever you’re dealing with tenants, we always have to honor tenants, they you know, they have families that are always good people. So in no way shape, or form is this episode about how to evict a tenant improperly. This discussion is to handle evictions, you know, with class properly, professionally, ethically. And that’s why we’re trying to share this information so that everyone is aware of how the tenant act works here in in Ontario specifically, and how we are all to abide by it. So hopefully you get a lot of good juicy details from this. And listen, if you are listening to this and you think this podcast and you think we’ve earned a review on iTunes, or a rating on iTunes, please go over to iTunes and give us that that means the world to us any feedback that you think we may have earned if you can give it to us on iTunes, it really means a lot to us. It’s kind of like the juice that really makes this whole thing flow. So thank you in advance if you think we’ve earned that we can ask that from you. Thank you for that. And that’s it. With that. Let’s get on with the show. Are you ready to live life on your turn? Is it time did take charge, real estate, business building the economy, health and nutrition and more. It’s the your life your term show with Tom and Nick Karadza. Are you
ready? Let’s go.
Okay, now we are live. This is attempt number two. And yeah, we are good with Kelly Hawks. And I was just saying you saying that Kelly is a great person, because Kelly represented our father. And for that no one here knows our father. But our father is an older European due to came over who thinks he always has the right answers and really doesn’t have a lot of patience. And I have no to this day. I don’t know how you represented him. I think it was over collections on some job he did. That was it right? And ever since you did that, I think that was our first like, actual business transaction together. That I was impressed. I’m like, Okay, if she can handle our dad, then she knows what she’s doing. And I think you you guys want I don’t even remember you guys won. He was all I know was he was happy and for our dad to be happy because he’s the kind of guy that since I was born till about I had my son, I didn’t really see him smile.
My son, he started smiling all of a sudden. But anyway,
that was good. He was happy with the results. He was happy. But also on
this we want to walk through how to like professionally and properly, not maliciously or anything, how to do an eviction in Ontario. We get asked that all the time. I’m sure you get asked that all the time? I do. Yeah. So I kind of want to just go through this process so that anyone listening to this knows what they need to do. And we’re going to try and lay it out. So anyone can do it by themselves. And then we’ll talk about some of the options in Ontario with if you just don’t have the time how you can hire someone in general that. But you know, we’ll just jump in instead of going through your history. I’m just going to tell everyone Kelly has a lot of experience, and you should trust her. We’re just gonna leave it at that. But can we begin with if someone you know, how does it usually start it? does it start when someone or clear this up for me someone that it’s the first of the month, somebody doesn’t pay? And it’s the morning of the second of the month? Okay, is that the beginning of a typical non payment of rent eviction process.
And in most cases, yes, in some cases, there’s a terms in the lease agreements, if they’re older lease agreements that say that the third day is considered late rent, I’ve come across that a number of times, but for the most part, it’s the second day of the month. I say for the most part, because some people start their leases mid month, and instead of doing a prorated amount to the end of a month, and then starting again on the first they have their rent cycle due on the 15th of every month. So let’s say if the rent isn’t paid on the date that the first date of the rental cycle, then the next day is considered late.
Okay. And then in the new Ontario standard lease agreement, is it the second?
Again, some people start them midway, but you’re supposed to Okay, so it’s rated account until the beginning of the next Run Cycle, which would be on the first of the month.
Okay. But in the new lease of the Ontario standard lease agreement that we can all Google up and download and use it there’s no like, wait two or three days. Now, you mentioned that. It is like the day after whenever you’re supposed to have paid. That’s right. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So then how does it so that happens, I wake up on the day after they’re supposed to have paid. And what is the first step?
Well, I always, always, always tell everybody to use the tools that they have. And the one tool that you must use if the rent isn’t paid is the end for notice. And that should be prepared and served on the day after rent is due if it has not been paid, even if it’s been paid partially, you can still include the partial payment in the end for I’ve always in my past in property management. And now as a representative told everybody that that’s the tool that you must use. And I still find that people aren’t utilizing it, I get people who, you know, haven’t paid rent for their tenant hasn’t paid rent for maybe three months, and they don’t know what to do so and for on the day after the note, the rent hasn’t been paid. And
if you want to look at the end for you can just google up like landlord tenant board and for some farms Yeah, before Yeah, like the end for even even Google, if you just put in like enfore form, and you’re gonna find, you’re going to find it. And there’s a nice PDF, which is the instructions Yes, for exactly how to fill it out. And I just want to comment on that point. Because that’s like, the first thing we see beginner investors make a mistake is that they typically buy into the story that the tenant is telling them to take. And whenever I hear stories of like, oh, it takes like eight months to evict somebody. And we all read the Charleston articles of the whole stories. In general, if you follow the process, it doesn’t take eight months. It’s usually the investor landlords fault, because they bought into whatever story their tenant is telling them and sometimes out of genuine kindness, which I can understand. Yeah. But when you go two or three or four months, it almost becomes more difficult to go down the process. Because when we’ve done that, we’ve made those mistakes, when you then start the end for process, because then it’s a form that gets mailed out. Yeah, it gets everyone’s backup three weeks. Yeah, I guess everyone’s backup, you know, well, you know what, I thought we had an agreement while we were waiting. So if you just on the first time they’re late, you say hey, listen, you know, I understand you’re gonna be able to pay me in two or three weeks, because that’s usually what you hear. That’s all good. However, I run this like a business. Yeah. And if you want to blame your brother, which is who I blame, I’m like, Hey, I run this, like, if it was me, I wouldn’t do this. Brother. I mean, he’ll just have my bat, you know, he’ll have my head if I if I don’t serve the notice. So if you want to just play good cop, bad cop, you can do that. Yep. and serve the note. So that enfore form a couple things are really important things. It has to be filled out correctly. Yes,
this is something that happens very often is, there’s mistakes made on the date, the termination date that people set out on the notice, because depending on the type of tenancy, if it’s a monthly tenancy, it’s 14 days after the notice has been served. But they sometimes don’t take into account how they’ve served it. And they don’t add enough days in if they’ve served it in any other way, except for handing it to the tenant directly.
So just explain that for me a little bit. If I’m so then if I mail it out, so I don’t want to go to the house, the house is in another town or city in Ontario, I mail it out, I have
to add five days to the termination date, and always add an extra day just to be safe.
And that’s in the instructions probably just glossed over. Yep. About service of the end for That’s right. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And the ways to deliver it are in person through Canada Post. Yeah. Right. Or is it can I think we career
to mail it, career, you have to add additional days for career depending on how you do it, there’s an express post option, there’s putting it in the mailbox where mail is normally received, and there’s handing it directly to the tenant. That’s right.
I’ve also put it in the mailbox one time I put it in the mailbox, this is early on. And I was so scared to do this. I literally put in the mailbox and read I ran
really have to have guts.
And I did it and I think I did it at like 630 in the morning. I’m like, I’m just that’s the only time I could get there. And I’m like I know. And I literally if you saw me would have been probably looked like I was stalking this house because I was looking around and there ran up dropped it.
Yeah, it’s so easy if you have an apartment building because they have a lot of them have the slots in the door. Or you can still find them underneath and you just shoot them.
Yeah.
Elevator press the elevator.
But I get
it. It’s hard to serve documents. It really is.
Yeah, but then after you’ve been burned enough for, you know, wrong increment reasons. I don’t mean, you know, someone who’s a good person trying to maybe having a problem with one month’s rent or something. But someone who’s really, after you’ve been abused by someone who’s really taking advantage of you kind of get a thick skin. Yeah, look, man, you know, I gotta serve this, because I’ve been screwed so many times that Yeah, I need to do this. That’s very true, it gets a little bit easier in the beginning. Okay, so those are the ways to serve. And those instructions are in the end for PDF from the Ontario tenant boards website. Yeah. So just be clear on that any other end for mistakes? The address
unit number has to be really clear, it has to be really clear. And what’s on the lease. I think that’s right. And a lot of people, if they have multiple basement units, they haven’t numbered the units. And they actually have to have specific numbers on those units. If there’s two, it should say basement unit one basement Unit Two. And that’s what it should set out on the end for notice. Because at the end of the road, if you require assistance from the sheriff, and I know we’ll get to the information part, but if you require assistance from the sheriff, and it doesn’t specify the unit, they won’t proceed with the eviction. And you’ve gone all that way.
Yeah, so Okay, so it needs to be one to can you do like ABC like, you know, unit? Yeah, as long as it’s they’ve designated them, and they’re clear which ones so when you say designated, designated on the lease, and then that whatever’s on the lease matches what you put on the f4? Yeah, but what about if it’s basement units like to you physically need those on the door of like the unit or anything or no,
I’ve suggested to put just those little numbers on the doors. Yeah. Okay. It’s helpful, especially for if you have multiple units, and then it just saves any issues later on.
Okay. And there’s no cost for sending out an end for now. We can do it ourselves. Yeah. And that gives the tenant 14 days from the time we get the straight, is it. David served from the date? It’s served? That’s right, catch up on rent.
That’s right. Okay.
And if 14 days goes beyond next month’s rent, that that also includes next month’s rent or right, yeah, okay. Yeah. So it’s 14 days from the date of service to catch up on right.
That’s right. Okay. Yeah. On the 15th day, you’re entitled to file the next step, if you haven’t received a rent payment, and that will be the one application.
Okay, all one application and the cost for the L one application right now, the last I checked, I think was 170 bucks to
if you file online, it’s 175. And if you file it in person, it’s 191 90. Now,
okay, 175, online, 190. In person, okay. And the L one form is another form that you can just google up l one, Ontario, you know, 10, and act or an Ontario tenant board, whatever you want, you’re going to find that form. You’ll also find the instruction PDF for that form.
Yeah. Which I have clients that want just don’t want to have anything to do with any of the notices. And then I have clients that want to do that part. And I completely understand
I almost tell someone for a new investor, just do it. Yeah,
yeah. And how much is going?
Yeah, I tell everyone, just do it one time. So you understand the process, that when you do hire someone in the future, you kind of just know the moving parts and stuff. And it’s not as scary as you really think it is. But of course, if you need to hire that out, and we’ll talk more about how you would best do that. So that’s the cost, you get the form online. Now on the L one form, what are the mistake most common mistakes you see on this thing?
The good thing about the L one application is if you make an error in some of the parts, you’re able with the adjudicators consent to amend them at the hearing, but it’s on consented the adjudicator. Okay, I was gonna click on the address, it’s not the address. Sometimes people say they forget. And they put that last month’s rent wasn’t paid. And in fact was and that’s part of the section that you fill out on the out one application. So you would be able to amend that at the hearing if it goes the other way. Technically, they don’t have to consent to accept it. And you may have to redo the one application because the tenant, if the tenant didn’t show up, they say, Oh, well, and this, I’ve heard, the tenant thought they only held this much. And now it’s changed the amount. So it’s going to have to be researched or amended. So you have to really just be clear about what you’re putting in there and make sure you’re putting all the correct information. Okay,
I think I’m correct me if I’m wrong, I think we had one tossed once because we calculated the unpaid rent incorrectly, like the total. So this would fall in the same thing where it was like, three months rent or whatever. And we were I think we were off by either $100 or $10.
Seems extreme. I would have just waved it. Like I would have said, let’s just go ahead with the
okay. I feel like maybe it wasn’t the best way. Yeah, but you have you have you seen something like that? I’ve
seen people who’ve told me horror stories. Yeah, I think
it’s if the Judy I think it’s maybe it’s just your attitude in front of the adjudicator? Am I using the right word adjudicator?
Yes, that’s right.
The adjudicator thinks sometimes if your attitude is off as the landlord in that situation, you just kind of rub them the wrong way. Yeah. And if it’s like the third little error you’ve made, and they just kind of laughing like, okay, you’re out of here. So you have to be careful on all of these little calculations I find, and you dresses up as a non starter, you’re saying dresses wrong, they tear it up, and you’re, you’re out.
They have issues with the address, they have issues with the Misspelling of the tenants names. For sure, but those are basic things that you should be getting. No,
I know, I know. But I’ve seen it. Yeah, I’ve seen people make mistakes on them. So
and the other thing is, is people often forget to click on the button that says that you want to recover, you want them to add the cost of the filing fee into the order as well. Because you can have that added and people forget that.
Okay, and if you forget the new dictators, obviously not going to give you that when they rule. Okay. Okay, and then what happens if you file the so so let me step back one second, I file the L one, how long now what happens? The tenant is notified in some fashion.
Yeah, so once you file the L one, it’s out of your hands. It’s up to the board to serve the notice of hearing package to both parties. So they’ll send by out to the landlord, and all of the tenants involved via mail. And that’s assumed service. So you don’t have to worry about serving the notice of hearing package.
Okay. And in that package, I guess there’s some instructions saying if you want to pay your missing rent or late rent, they can pay up and then it’s over?
discontinued, then how
does that happen to they paid directly to the landlord? And the landlord notifies the board? Yes. Okay. And that does the termination,
right. So if a tenant wants to pay money into the board, they have to receive consent to do so. From from the landlord. That’s right. From the landlord tenant board, they would have to say, this application is being heard, I want to pay my rent into the board in trust. They don’t really want to do that. So they’ll say no, there’s no reason for you to do this. And you can pay the landlord directly. So the way to avoid the whole the whole application process or for the hearing is for the tenant to pay all the rent of reset or do and the filing fee if it’s been requested before the hearing date.
Okay, got it? And if they so if they don’t, is there a hearing date sent in the mail when those notices that l wanna serve? Okay, and the gap between filing and getting a hearing date. And I know in Ontario, like, you know, it’s there’s been more renters more population growth, like it’s been a bit crazy. But can we paint a junior I know every community I’m hesitating because I know every area is going to be different. But can you paint a picture? like really? What’s the timeframe?
Um, you’re looking at definitely a few weeks, it could be more. It really depends. I find I’ve been really lucky with the renter ears ones that we’re looking at maybe three to four weeks out. If there’s multiple issues like damage or you know, the other reasons for termination, which we can talk about if you want to. They’re further ahead couple of months. couple of months for sure.
They’re streamlining the simple ones.
Yeah, they’re trying to
give it to the junior adjudicate and
it also really heavily depends on the area. Okay,
yeah. So what just out of curiosity, what areas like I don’t know, super short winter super long range.
I’m finding St. Catherine’s is taking a very long time. Yeah.
Cuz so much is going on out there. They’re probably don’t have the infrastructure to handle it.
Hamilton, surprisingly, for the volume, you get a fairly quick date. I was okay.
And what about like an area like, I don’t know, Mississauga, Brampton.
Yeah, they’re fairly standard. It’s, they’ve got it.
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz they going pretty. They’ve been having such a population base for so long. They got it. Okay. All right. So few weeks you get your hearing, then when you go to the hearing, first of all, what are the documents that you know, me, the landlord or the landlord needs to bring with them to that hearing?
Well, if if there’s any dispute as to a rent that’s been paid or not by the tenant, you’ll want to bring some kind of proof of payment. A lot of people people ledger, and that’s very handy.
So that could just be a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet kind of thing. Yeah. Okay.
Yes. A lot of people keep track of let’s say they’re 10 and always pays by E transfer, they keep track of those, or they’ve printed out a copy of those. And so some way to show that, hey, look, I don’t have rent, right? And when it comes down to it, the onus is on the tenant to prove that they did pay it. So you might, it might come into question to you as a landlord, but it really is the onus is on the tenant to
prove that Oh, God, I don’t think I knew that. Okay. Okay. And then the lease to I guess
the lease is important, because if there’s any questions about last month’s rent being paid, normally, it’s set out in the lease that it was received on x date, and then they can calculate the interest that’s owed on the last month around if you haven’t got it. Okay, make some have to bring the lease. But I always like to have a copy of it with me in case anything comes up. Because those hearings attendance always like to raise so many issues that are unrelated to rent payments. I want to make sure you have I
talked to I shouldn’t say this, but I feel like sometimes it’s like the People’s Court, because you just hear crazy things sometimes. And I remember one time, I was there and someone got into an argument with the landlord or the legal representative for the landlord. And they just I guess they lost and he just stomped out, you know, the back of the room, and then slam the doors and marched out the hallway like this, like crazy. It was crazy. So yeah, if you if you’re bored, you have nothing to do just find one of these and sit at the back. Because you can just walk in instead of the back and yourself for a day. For
the most part. They’re pretty straightforward. They run very streamlined, but I have heard and have seen some pretty wild things happen at the Toronto locations, though. Yeah, but recently they’ve moved locations and they’ve beefed up their security. There’s police there. Oh, no, no, my lease now. Yeah, it’s really bad. Really? All threats and bad things happen there. No.
Right. So anyone who’s thinking about getting become a landlord, we just scared the crap out of now and around. No, it’s fine. The everyone needs to notice that
now. Yes, security. Security. Now it’s
better. I was thinking that’s worse. Better. Okay, was bad. But now we have the a team there. That
LPP got it really Yeah. Or appeal police? Yeah,
really? Okay. So, okay, so you have those? You typically, if I remember correctly, I haven’t been in a while. So correct me if I’m wrong, you sign in when you get there? Yes. Yeah. I remember signing in. And then I just waited and I felt like it was people like you who did you to cater some you always got up there first, because you would hammer through, I feel like 25 aces or whatever you call them. And I was always impressed when someone like you, Kelly would go to the front, you’re all organized. And they were just like running. And the small landlord like me, just seems to get bumped to the end. Because they know, I think the adjudicators know, it’s gonna take some time, they’re gonna have to work. And then you get called up, and you could be there. You could be there for a few hours until you’re called up depends
on what is ahead of you.
Yeah. So yeah, because if one in front of you takes like an hour, right, you’re stuck. It’s if it’s some weird situation.
The other reason a delay could happen is that tenants are allowed to speak to duty counsel for free ahead of the hearing. And they have to sign a list and you have to wait for them to do that. It’s the right to have free legal advice prior to the hearing. Okay, got it. And then there’s also an option to speak to a mediator. So oftentimes, the
different things I thought that was the same thing, no. Different things. Okay.
Yeah. Okay. So that can cause a delay, because you don’t, you might not necessarily reach an agreement with the mediator. But you’ve gone through the process to try to do that. And then you don’t have to agree with it. But sometimes it works out. And then you can get out of there. Really,
I always thought the mediation was really good. Because when you meet with the mediator again, correct me if I’m wrong, you can come to a decision on how the repayment process like the difference for repayment process. And then I thought if they didn’t follow through on those dates, don’t you get an automatic kind of judgment for eviction? If they break that schedule?
Essentially, the residential Tennessee’s okay. So you ask for it from the tenant board. That’s what isn’t it like an automatic approval because they’ve broken the meat. There’s still a filing process, you have to advise them that they defaulted on the payment plan that was set out and based on section 78, you’re entitled to file for termination because of their default, but it is an application process and then they mail you the order.
Okay. So I don’t have to go back to the tribunal usually
doesn’t know you have to file the request for the termination order based on the default.
Okay, but I’m not going back in front of an adjudicator to explain the situation.
No, unless the tenant files in motion to set aside the order. And that sometimes happens,
okay. And they would set aside the order because they have some new reason that they want to discuss with somebody about not being able to pay.
That’s right.
Yeah. Okay. Um, and then, so they go to meet, you go to mediation, you hash something out, usually, it works really well, I found and usually everybody kinda
like the mediation process, I find it I can deal with other issues at the same time. And as long as the tenants willing or agreeing to whatever it is that we’re discussing, then we can sort of other issues like cleaning up and things like that
is the same. That’s what I found that mediation process, I thought it was really good, and then you kind of skip the line waiting for your time in front of the adjudicator worked out. I always thought really well.
Yeah. Sometimes the landlord’s just have had enough and they don’t even want to, they just want to get a standard order because it’s a lot faster. It’s 11 days done, right? Okay, where the mediated order gives them an opportunity to do it properly, and it could take months.
Okay. So when you use the language standard order, that’s like, No, I want to go in front of the adjudicator. I want to get my standard order for 11 days, you’re going to be out of this house, right? Okay. Okay. And that would be a case for not going to mediation because I’m just like fed off some
of the merge. And sometimes I do recommend that you don’t, that they don’t enter into mediation because it’s just too it’s gone too far.
Okay. So you go to mediation doesn’t work out or you don’t go to mediation, your name gets called up. You go in from the adjudicator adjudicator ask you some questions of like, why are you here? What’s this about? kind of thing? Right? You go back and forth explaining about the rent,
right? It’s the landlords application. So they get to speak first. And basically, you just go through what what’s going on the rent? They’ll ask you whether or not last month’s rent was received, have you ever paid interest? And then they turn to the tenant and ask them the questions about tenant, what are you doing? Why haven’t you paid?
And why are you asking me? Have I ever paid interest on last month’s rent?
Because I know we have annual basis, you do have to pay interest on last month. But that matters
at that point. When they’re calculating what’s owed in the order that goes into the calculation. They’ll deduct it.
Okay. And if I’ve missed putting that in the application, is that okay?
Yes. They’ll ask you and they have to account for it. Yeah. Okay. And attendance favor, so they’ll always make sure.
That’s fair. I mean, that makes sense. If you’re supposed to pay, you’re supposed to pay it. Okay. So then, let’s say it’s decided that, yes, they’re laid on rent, they haven’t paid rent, they come up with some reasons that they haven’t paid rent. It goes, does the adjudicator make a decision on the spot? That standard orders, okay, sometimes do they?
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they just say I’ll grant the order, and it’ll come in the mail. They, they have actually 30 days to write the orders,
okay. And we’ve been in that situation when they’ve where they’ve taken our stuff away, and had to think about it or molded over or whatever. Sometimes
they do that so that there’s not an altercation in the hearing room. If there’s high tensions from the tenant or things like that, smart take the opportunity to defuse the situation by saying, we’ll consider every all the evidence and we’ll send it in order smart,
okay, and then the order goes out in the mail to both parties, the landlord and the tenant. Okay, and it’s 11 days from the issuance of the order. That’s actually that, okay, so if it’s an issue, if the standard ordered to evict is issued that day, when you’re at the tribunal, it’s usually 11 days later. And I’m just pointing this out, because I want everyone to know that next time you hear someone say it takes eight months to evict somebody. And there are crazy stories I’m not trying to sell it or not. It’s just in general, if you follow the end for his 14 days, then the L one, you’re going to wait, you know, as we discussed a few weeks, maybe a month, maybe six weeks, eight weeks, whatever it is to get into the tribunal. And then after that, it could be another 11 days. That’s what we’re not talking like eight months or a year.
Right. Then there’s also after the 11th day, if the rent hasn’t been paid, then on the 12th day, you’re entitled to file with the sheriff. This is a misconception. Some people feel as though if they notify the board on the 12th day that the order hasn’t been complied with, they just automatically get a termination, the sheriff will just go in and evict them. That’s not how it works. Okay, so so I want just so we’re clear,
on the 12th of day if they haven’t left the house, have you drive by?
They haven’t paid? Both they have
sorry, because yeah, of course, I’m just thinking they’re not going to pay. But you’re right. If they haven’t paid and they’re still in the they’re still in the unit, you can take your standard order to the sheriff. Right. Right. And the sheriff isn’t at the landlord tenant board. Where do you go for the sheriff? Well, small claims court
Claims Court in the court enforcement office and depending on where you are, it’s going to be in that jurisdiction.
Okay. I’ve always found the lender 10 board very helpful. So if you have any questions where to go, sometimes they’re not helpful, you know, sometimes To be fair, but they’ll tell you one way or another, they’re going to tell you where to go. But Nick and I’ve had success just kind of playing dumb a lot and calling the landlord tenant board and saying like, here’s our situation, or just doing hypotheticals like this isn’t for us, but we have this situation.
They’re actually not allowed. So you guys must be something Yeah, their customer. So they’re not
legal for years. But you know, what, haven’t done that to be fair, and probably 678 years. Yeah, now, but we used to do that all the time. I used to
tell people to do that all the time. They give sometimes false information, or it’s just because they’re not.
They don’t know. Right? Okay. And you know, it’s good that you’re saying that because we’ve heard them give false information where all the time the landlord has come to us and said, Hey, the tenant board told me this I’m like, that’s completely wrong.
I’ve heard it a
lot. Okay, you know what, since we’re talking about this, you know, we’re also have kind of gotten like, quote, unquote, free advice on the fly is like different landlord self help centers. Yeah, it takes a long time sometimes to get a response. But I think they’re doing pro bono work. And there’s a good one in Toronto, the landlord Self Help Center. If you Google it up, and you send them an email. I always get great responses, but I haven’t reached out to them in a long time.
Yeah, again, I agree. There are some good ones out there. You just have to be careful because it’s not legal advice. It’s based on their specific circumstances. And maybe not all the circumstances are the same because there’s so many different
areas. Got it. Okay. Okay, so you’re getting advice, but you can’t take it like rule of law like here’s what I was told from these guys, right? Okay. Okay, it’s still kind of helpful. It’s nice to know that exists out there though. Right, especially if you do it yourselfer, and you want to kind of get some advice Okay, so I get the standard order they have not paid because if they have paid we’re back to square one the leases in effect and we’re good to go again that’s fine but if they have not paid then I take it to the sheriff and I just personally office court enforcement office wherever municipality I’m and you find That’s right. You go there with the order and you pay like so you go and fill out forms fill up forms are those forms online? I don’t think they have them available on
the screen. I think you’re like you have to get them there are like we have a legal wrapping.
We’ve only had to do it and all are yours one time and i think i
Haley Yeah, you know how many I’ve done?
Yeah, well, I can imagine your hour.
Yeah, probably. Hundred. Yeah, yeah.
Really? Right. Yeah.
Some of them super easy. Yeah. And some of them are really when we when we
Yeah, some of them are so we actually when we started working with investors, we would tell them hey look if you have to go to this step and you’re going to get a sheriff will come to the property with you like I don’t know like we thought we were like Rambo or something. But what Don’t worry, we’re going to come with you so I’m going to this back up going to with this one investor to this one property in there and the sheriff was supposed to pull up and I think the landlord the investor of this property, thought it literally was gonna be like a Rambo type person. And this like Ford Taurus pulls up with a little kind of sticker like on the dashboard that says Like, court Sheriff enforcement officer or something. Yeah, like it wasn’t even a mega The door was just like a laminated card in the thing. And this older gentleman gets out did have a bulletproof vest on right, a bulletproof vest, the older gentleman, and then I started to panic,
thinking, Oh, no, I really might have I really might
have to get involved here. But I now know that if they if that person when they go, and if the people don’t leave, because they’re mandated, once you go through that process and hire Sheriff to deliver you, I now know a vacant, vacant possession that’s called Yeah, they can possession. And if they have any issues, they actually call the police.
That’s right.
And that made me feel better, because I’m like, Oh, my gosh, this guy’s gonna get kicked out of this is
funny. And they basically when they asked for information on the request forms, the eviction request forms, they asked if there’s any chance of certain things happening, and I think they would probably send whoever based on Oh, because they they do ask is there is this? Is there a tenant? Is it hostile?
violence or things like that, and animals and okay. I think when they get the information, they say, this one should be LK for for Bob.
get the best out there.
walking slowly in there. And then I remember and actually, this one case i’m talking about was pretty easy. They ended up being gone.
Yeah. So good one, that’s
Yeah. And he walked in and then I think we called the locksmith on the spot. I can ask you about that in a second. And he signed a paper that you had to acknowledge that you were getting vacant possessions. Right. So is it
it’s an actual piece of paper that says that says Sheriff has delivered bacon possession of that property?
Yeah. Okay. Which makes you feel good as a landlord, if you don’t know, like, their job
title defining moment for the whole year. Really? Yeah.
Yeah. And at that moment, you can change the locks, is that correct?
They actually won’t give you vacant possession unless the locks have been changed because
that because I remember locksmith being involved have to
have the locks change prior to them signing off.
Okay. So you have a locksmith on standby, basically, call the locksmith and line that locksmith up for the same time, right. Okay. change the locks. You saw the paper. Now what happens with stuff left in the property?
Okay, so if they’ve left possessions in the property, it’s a real, it happens a lot. It does, they just leave. I know, because they don’t want to be when the sheriff gets there. It’s up to the landlord to arrange a time for the tenant to pick up their belongings within reason. The trouble with that is if they’re all scattered throughout the house, you don’t want to let the tenant back in the house. No, you don’t. So if they can be moved to a central location, or into a garage or things like that, then you don’t really want to, you know, entered into a situation where you might have to call the police because they won’t leave the property.
So you collect everything up, which can be if they’ve looked lost, that could be a if it’s a single family home
can be a pain. Sometimes it’s really hard.
Yeah, sometimes it’s usually not but one time, I think we had an aquarium or something. Wow. Yeah.
And I think
we had to figure out how to deal with it. Because there was like life fish.
Yeah. And then you all Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt. No, you also have to be very careful, because if you damage anything, they’re going to come off. Yeah. So it’s really tricky situation, but it can be worked through. Sometimes. They have they call the police in advance and let them know what’s happening. And you know, okay, at least they’re not going to be waiting hours if the tenant is not is refusing to leave the property or something. It has happened, though. So you’ve seen people being they get in hold out of properties? Yes,
I have. Yeah. Well, that’s intense. I’ve never seen that.
It’s really,
yeah, that’s nasty. I mean, that’s just horrible. I just feel for their family and what they’re going through. Like I know, a small landlord is thinking, you know, hey, look, I need rent to pay the bank and kind of, but at the same time, I just feel for some of these families going through that. Yeah, just kids. No,
I family. Okay, good. A single male. Okay, people.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then what about if pets are left behind?
That’s a hard one to me. Society happened? Yeah, animal control or Humane Society. And then you have I mean, I’ve gone above going beyond to notify the tenant where their pet is because it’s sure you really
hurt. Okay. And I can’t remember what we did with the aquarium. I think that
would have been a tough one. That was a really tough one. I think we have to let them back in to get the query. Yeah, you probably did.
That would have been really long.
Yeah, it was okay. And then the timeframe of what’s the reasonable time I remember 72 hours for some reason. That’s
right. You have to hold on to their things for 72 hours, after 72 hours, you can dispose of them.
Okay. So after 72 hours, and if I’m going to dispose of them, so I don’t hear anything from them. But an after 72 hours, I can call one 800 got junk or disposal. And just a whole this stuff out of here.
Right? I have seen tenants come back after the 72 hour period and say they had flat screen TV, they had all these things that they didn’t really have. So I’ve advised a lot of my clients to take photographs of
quick video on your phones. Okay, yeah, we actually had one student leave everything in his room. I feel like the whole summer went by and we didn’t do anything. And then we just kind of threw it all out. And we didn’t know so we got someone to throw it up. But it was like a signed like Wayne Gretzky jersey. He’s like, I don’t care about anything. But can I get my signed Wayne Gretzky? And we’re like, Damn, we don’t know where it is gone. Right. He was okay with it, because he knew he was really at fault. But it just you just felt like no, yeah.
That’s hard. Got Oh, my gosh, that was so tough. But okay, so then 72 hours, but what happens if they say within the 72 hours, they say, I can’t come until next week? Because we’ve seen that situation?
Sure. matter? No. Two hours, you’re allowed to get rid of it. Okay. Some people have again, then you’re entering into another situation where you’re listening to their story. And they were Yeah. Okay.
So follow the rules.
It’s got to be treated like a business transaction. Yeah. This is it. You’ve got 72 hours make the time or else it’s gone? Yeah. Okay.
Okay. That’s good to know. Okay, so the sheriff, we covered that whole bit, they can possession, there is a fee to that you have to pay the share. Yeah, three, what is it now? I was gonna say 353 50. Yeah, something like that. Okay. And we think the forms are there. You have to go in person, we think to fill out the form.
I don’t believe that the eviction request forms are available on the Ontario court forms website. I don’t think so. Sometimes you can get through to the enforcement office, and they’ll email you a copy. Okay, um, but for the most part, I’m pretty sure they’re not on the list of Ontario court forms.
Okay. And so at this point, I’m now done. I have the signed vaping possession form, we’ve changed the locks, the stuff is either gone, or if it’s not gone 72 hours. Just on that note, one last thing. I’m just waiting to be contacted about picking up their stuff. Like the tenant just has to reach out to me.
No, you should try to make arrangements. Okay.
Oh, you have to be proactive. Really? kind of sucks.
But you wanted out of your property? No, I know. Okay.
So you reach out to the tenant. That’s right.
Okay, and we are live at 10. No, no, I mean, I’m a nice guy, but I just don’t want to I know. Okay, I got it. Reach out. Hey, we evicted you great news with their stuff when you come in to get it. That’s it? Yes. Once and one of the forms. Can I do it via email? Yeah, sure. Okay. Text email, you should do it. Keep notification. Keep Yeah, keep record and notify them.
That’s right. That’s it. Okay.
Yeah. Okay, so now I have one off questions on this kind of situation. You’re still good for time right here. Yeah. Okay. What if I go buy a property? We’ve done this before, and we find a property that we’re actively leasing out and we find it vacant, they’ve abandoned the unit. Okay. And is the Is there a form that I remember putting something on the door for a certain amount of time?
You can’t post anything on the door anymore? Okay. They told the guy. Okay, okay, that was just recent. So okay, so I’m not
Yeah, I’m not that old. Okay. I remember sticking it on door. But ok. So now you fill out the form is it? Do you remember, you know, what the form?
What do you live there for at that like, so that I want to get ownership?
Yeah, they’re, they’re gone. So nice. Neighbors haven’t seen them. It’s been like a week, no one knows where they are? They’re gone.
Right. So then you have to file the application to the board saying that you believe the tenant as abandoned the unit and they’ll send you they’ll either? I don’t think they’ll have a hearing. That doesn’t happen very often. No, we’ve seen it happen.
Yeah, but
and then they’ll deem that the tendency is terminated because the tenant has vacated. Okay. And
once we get that note back from the tenant board, you’re good to go, then we can get into the property. But until then, we I think we were advised not to enter?
Well, I would say that to get around that you just serve the 24 hour notice. Oh, yeah, we’re coming in. Okay, hang out on a piece of paper while you’re standing there. Smart now box and then come back the next day and
go in. We’re smarter than us. Okay. I think we were so freaked out. We just waited. Okay. Um, what about consistent late rent? Can I eat evict for that and what makes what defines consistency on late rent?
There is a forum for persistently payment, it’s the forum. And and I would say that it’s, you, you would likely get notice of the board for considering a termination of a tendency, if they’ve paid late, let’s say five times. I’ve seen people go in at three. And they’re like, man, let’s put some, they usually just put some strict rules in order, okay, and the tenant is required to pay on the first for a 12 month period or something like that. And if they don’t, then you can just file to get it. Okay. So
you can’t because it is kind of annoying when you’re getting late rent, especially if you have your own payments to make. Okay, so five months, maybe kind of sorta
right, but you can’t serve that notice until 60 days prior to the end of the first term. So if you’re in the first year, you can’t serve it until the 10th month.
Okay, if I have a two year lease, three year lease,
that’s one of the
goals of a long term lease. Okay, good to know. But if it’s a one year, you know, more typical least one year
on month, month, you’re fine. Okay.
Okay, and then what about because this one’s called us before? So I kind of know the answer, but like, what about pets? Like I you know, they’re saying, you know, we had this on like a duplex situation. No pet, you know, people upstairs really don’t get along with pets. We prefer that you don’t have any pets? They tell us? Yeah, we don’t have any pets. We move them in day to day get a dog.
Yeah, the tricky thing about pets is that you’re not allowed to say no pets. Yeah.
You can’t advertise no pets. That’s right. I think that’s why we always use the word prefer, right thinking that somehow that was legally legally accepted. acceptable? Right?
And I know legal is just so black and white. So for my position, it doesn’t matter. I
can’t can’t even say that. Okay, yeah, but see the you can see there’s an allergy.
Okay, so the only time that pets would potentially be asked to be removed from the property is if it’s causing damage to the property or another tenant is being affected by it. And you would have to prove that the onus would be on you.
And I would have to get the other tenant to write something or declare something. Yeah.
Let’s say it’s an allergy, then let’s see, since they moved in what’s happened, you would need to prove it
or like a doctor note of some sort of the case, you would have to build a case,
it happens. Okay. There’s also some that I’ve seen where people have moved in, and I’m, you know, it’s a duplex situation. There’s children on the one side and the other dog is not good. Very calm ahead. Yeah, there’s never the dog is not good with children. And it’s a safety issue. That’s something that they take very seriously. But again, you’d have to go through all the incidences and the events and things like that. And there’s forms the landlord tenant boards website for this kind of stuff. Like it would be, it would be the end five that you use in that case, okay to list all the events and everything, okay.
And because I got into a situation, okay, since we’re talking about this, I got a situation where the downstairs tenants were just like, kind of being a new since so the reasonable enjoyment of the property was disturbed for the upstairs tenant. Yeah. And that one, this one’s etched in my mind, right. I think as I went to the door with my son behind me at one point to like, talk to them about like, who’s living in this property and my life, like Aiden Come with me stand behind your father right here. But the door at this point, I really wasn’t scared anymore. I just didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know the proper way to do this, right. But the upstairs tenant would not, like legal, not legally, but they wouldn’t declare on a piece of paper, that the reasonable enjoyment of the property was being disturbed because they were worried about intimidation or something. But I was getting calls daily, that the reasonable enjoyment of the property was being destroyed. It’s, that was like the most horrible situation, I think that’s actually when we first started getting legal help from you. Because I didn’t know really how to handle remember this
right. And it is really difficult, because oftentimes, they won’t grant a termination order, unless they’ve been able to obtain all the details. Because if you don’t have someone there to speak to what’s happened, then what evidence Are you
going to try and get a neighbor to declare something, but anyway, it all kind of took care of itself. In the end, the downstairs tenant moved out. And but that’s a tough one.
Right? It is a tough one, if you can’t get them to go or provide some kind of statement. Yeah. Okay. They don’t really love the statements, because then the you can’t question the person on what’s been put in the statement. So it’s not really fair. Yeah, God assessment of the evidence, but you
have seen and just flipping back for a second to the pet situation, but safety, you have seen those situations where an emotional, or sorry, pets are mandated by the tenant board to be removed?
Yes. And then most often, what happens is they leave the tenants leave, because they want their pet.
Yeah, makes sense. I get it. Okay, what about you brought up damage there, I we tell everyone look, if because a lot of people are really concerned with damage. And if you’re listening to this, you should know that a lot of insurance companies in Canada now have great insurance products for landlords, where they will insure against damage, I mean, you pay more. But if that’s like your biggest concern, and a lot of you invested, that is their biggest concern. I never really from our experience, it’s not that big, it does happen. But it’s over all, it’s not that big of a concern. But if that was your major concern about damage, we tell them, Hey, now just get one of these insurance products that will cover you on that. But in the past, and what we still do is we tell everyone take pictures of the unit before they move in. And now you can take a quick video even but take pictures, print them off. And with the least now you can make fun of us on this one initial get the the tenant to initial that that’s the state of the unit as they’re moving in so that if we do go to the tribunal, we can now show before and after pictures. Is that just nonsense to you? Or?
No, it’s good. You would just have to make sure that if you’re going to intend to use it as evidence because my legal mind is Yang. Okay. So you would have to make sure that where they initially on the back of each note right
on the pitch note on top of the picture. Okay, sure. It’s printed off. its initial, we stapled it where they needed. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, sure. Every page is data. Now, if someone brought that to me, I’d be like that going to be great. Right? Yeah.
Okay, awesome. Okay. So that’s one way to show the evidence. Right. Okay. Other than that, for damages there any really way to, you know, if a tenant moves out,
yes. quotes, if you get a contractor in to do quotes on repairs, to assess, give you an estimate on what it’s going to cost, then you can try to pursue it based on don’t say, fight back and say, Well, now, although you’re getting into a state where that didn’t exist when I moved in? Well, there’s usually the argument is about whether or not it was reasonable wear and tear. Yeah, okay. Okay. But if you have the photos, and it’s really bad, because obviously I see the worst case.
Yeah, I see. Okay, I don’t have the photos and I get a contractor quote.
Right. That’s how that’s gonna work to be down to the believability of the evidence that you have in the the judge who’s looking at it, because you would be pursuing this through small claims court if it’s under $25,000. Okay, so
if it’s under 25,000, this is beyond the scope of the tribunal. That’s right. They don’t i don’t even get a judgment from the tribunal.
The reason why it’s beyond the scope of the tribunal is because you said after they vacated, if they were still in the unit, and you’ve done a property inspection, and there’s a lot of damage, you still would have to pursue it through the landlord tenant for Okay,
got it. Two different scenarios. All right. Perfect.
Now, what about the left, but I haven’t got my missing rent. What’s the situation in Ontario? I think you taught me about the term skip tracers. Yeah. So like, how, you know, what are my options for like, because sometimes we’ve seen situations where you know, a few thousand dollars is missing. It’s a big deal. Not a few. Five, we’ve saved a lot, a lot. Yeah. What are my options for collecting that?
Well, hopefully you’ve obtained some information about their place of employment, because I think we’ve talked about this before. Yeah, it’s the best way to try to recover it is through small claims court enforcement. Once you’ve obtained an order, our judgment for the damage, are we talking about a reverse? We’re now we’re talking about? Yeah, Mrs. Then you’ve already got the order that sets out the ears that can be transferred over to smoking.
So I take my or my standard order for missing rent over to small claims,
you have to fill out the proper transferred over I know, it’s always farms. Yeah,
I’m filling out like, because I’m now engaging the small claims court
and selecting the enforcement. Sorry, I didn’t know No, no, that’s good. you’re selecting the enforcement that you’re choosing to try to recover it and the best one is by wage garnishments. It’s slow and steady, but it’s the least risky, least risky. Okay.
And it’s slow and steady, because the court will choose some option, or rate to recoup the rent.
Once the garnish he that’s the employer has received the notice of government papers, they are obligated to deduct up to 20% of every paycheck and submit it to the court. That is unless there are other garnishments in place. And if there are ones like CRA or child support, then forget it. You’re You’re not gonna you’re on a long list. Okay, but I’m on the list.
Yes, you are. But because after CRA is done or child support, maybe that’s right. Number one,
that’s right. Okay. Yeah. But if the child support is if the child’s young, and they’re going to be paying child support for extended, okay, they always come first. Okay. Fair enough. But oftentimes, I mean, it’s my most successful remedy for my clients, wage garnishments. And again, a slow and steady but you’re getting a check from the court every time they receive money from the garnishing. And the beauty of it is, is it’s the garnish she doesn’t comply with their obligations, you can get a judgment against the garnish she Yes, employer. Yeah. And then the likelihood of you getting paid out very quickly is
Yeah, most employers we’ve seen in these types of situations for different reasons over the years tend to comply, because they know it’s a court order. And usually, yes, it’s a real mom and pop kind
of I’ve had a few where it’s funny because they they said no, you can’t, you won’t be able to get a judgment against me and they refuse to comply. And so I called I brought them to task, I brought them to court and I did get an order against them. And they hired me to try to get the money back from No.
Yeah, they were like what happened? Okay, can you help us get it from the the debtor now, please? Yeah, we’ve had that happen a couple times.
And what happens if I don’t know the I can only imagine all the things from all the things we’ve seen in real estate to this point, I can only imagine all the things you’ve seen coming in at the worst.
It’s amazing that you’re just still so pleasant. Like just scarred at this point. But what happens if you don’t know where they work? You know, they change jobs? Because we’ve seen this they just kind of magically disappear? Who do you hire? Who do you reach out to someone like yourself then for that?
I do, provide skip tracing service through my contacts. And so these are like private
detective kind of people. Yeah,
there are people who have
connections that can obtain the dog, the bounty hunter,
it’s pretty much like that. Some of them are like that. Some of them are pretty straightforward. I want
you to Dog the Bounty under the cat request dog the bag.
You can only call after
they go they’ll find out. But I also have used p eyes depending on how much like on a on a,
like a contract basis if you need them or something.
Yeah, where they stick them out face. Okay, go follow them. Cuz it depends on how much you’re trying to recover. And some people are really determined to get this money back. So yeah, I mean, if
people are over the years, Nick and I, it hasn’t happened that much to us. But we usually kind of just wash it. Because what like when we get all the cost together, like, it’s really not that worth it. But some people just out of principle, or like, I don’t care. I’m getting this money back.
Yeah. And I always have the talk with them about, you know, pursuing on principle, because if you completely understand what costs you’re facing, and it doesn’t make sense to pursue it, but you just determined to get it based on principle. It’s not always the best way to go. Yeah, agreed. Yeah,
because of the costs.
That’s right. Okay.
And then what happens is you hand over the keys on a you like a, you know, a unit and or house or whatever, hand over the keys. You have some money collected, like first month’s rent, but you didn’t get first and last, but you have some money collected. And then you didn’t get last month’s rent, and then they stopped paying your rent. Because I’ve seen this situation. Yeah, I’ve seen it too. We should always try to get first and last, of course, no, I know. But some people are just like, Oh, my gosh, is the nicest family they needed to move in right away. I gave him the keys, I took first month’s rent, and I’ll come back with the lease to sign in. And last month, and then all of a sudden, just the doors lock, they don’t respond to the phone. They’re in the property. There now we’re we have to go to the tenant board for starting
the process that was
and for So even with no signed lease. So am I correct in saying in Ontario that I know there’s a new Ontario standard lease agreement that we all use. But even if I exchange keys, keys and accept money, there’s an implied contract. Okay, there is an implied contract. And I’m now bound by the tenancy Act and the Ontario tenant asked correct. That’s right. So that’s it. So the the oldest business of getting a signed lease, because a lot of people think, you know, well, I don’t have a signed lease. So technically, they’re not in my property. If money changes hands for keys, and I think the unit has to have like a kitchen like I don’t know how they define a unit. But I remember reading at one point that like, the unit has to have a kitchen and a bedroom or it’s like, right,
so it’s only covered by the the landlord tenant bar jurisdiction as long as the landlord does not reside in the same property and they don’t share a bathroom or kitchen with the tenant. Got it? Because that nature?
Yes, exactly. Because if they do share a bathroom or tenant, then that’s like something completely different. I don’t know what that is. But you’re right,
under the jurisdiction of okay. So would that be like a roommate then? Then you would be seeking the assistance of the police for trespassing, and then any barriers that are owed to you, you would have to pursue through small claims? Got it?
Okay, so what we’ve covered a lot of ground now what kind of concert? Yeah, this is great. So what what have we not covered that you’ve seen? That’s a typical thing.
While we were still talking about you, saying that they’ve handed over the keys without getting last?
Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah,
I’ve seen that a lot.
So that’s just day one, you’re going to an end for now know, what is it LN for
basically, if you’ve only received one month’s rent, then if that month isn’t paid, then you’re going to start with the end for process. But don’t hand over the keys until you get
the money. And not just the money. We tell people. If it’s a check, make sure it’s a certified check or a bank draft or the transfers gone through because some people we’ve seen accept checks the check balances. That’s right. Right. So
the other thing that I think would help a lot of people in understanding how to mitigate their potential losses is by and I know this is tough, because people there’s a lot of investors that have, you know, full time jobs, and there’s only and they have properties and other places. But I find that in my experience, and what I’ve seen time and time again, is that the more absent the landlord is, the larger the problems become.
So what do you reckon? I agree, yeah, go ahead, you do regular Property Inspections, you know, three a year, or at least your insurance company is going to want you to anyway, and they they sometimes have a stipulation where it’s one a quarter now we’ve seen used to be to a year we see now a lot one a quarter. Yeah, okay. And we find that as well. And we find communication, like if your if your tenant reaches out to you for some small repair or something, we see a lot of lenders just like ignore it, yeah, you know, will respond, you know, just responding get on it, like I know, it’s usually a pain, but just respond like keep the communication. And that way, when you wonder that type of community communication on your side, even if you can’t get a handyman or the repair done immediately, when you’re communicating then when the tables are turned, and they owe you rent, you now can kind of sort of demand the same respect back to you. And we found that if you respect people’s requests around that type of communication there then are much better at responding to your communication. And we also tell all tenants that hey, look, if you are going going to be late on rent in this situation, we are going to start this end for process. Here’s what to expect. So they’re not caught off guard. But we also say, hey, look, you’re saying you’re going to be caught up in like two weeks, just keep the communication rolling. Because if we don’t hear from you for three weeks, like nothing crickets, we’re just going to think the worst. So please keep the communication going back and forth. And we’ve had some tenants communicate saying, hey, look, I thought I was going to get caught up in two weeks. I haven’t here’s the situation I should be in another two weeks, we continue down the end for process and l one process, but it does work out. And the only reason that that it’s worked out is because we we’ve asked that they keep communicating with us. We haven’t got all anxious over the situation. And we’ve had that many times
as long as you’re still following the process, which is the key. You’re mitigating your loss. Yeah,
totally. Yeah. Okay, so and then now who can represent me at the tenant board if I don’t want to go myself because we were joking about this earlier that Nick and I used to go with investors and represent them because we used to say, hey, look, if you buy a property, we’re never going to leave your side. If you have a problem, we will come to the tenant board. And we will speak the adjudicator on your behalf. And we used to get away with that I can’t believe we didn’t even know we were doing anything wrong. We thought we were just helping a small landlord isn’t regulated them. Yeah. We were speaking on behalf engaging with tenants on the other side there. It was awesome. But But now we can’t right. So who can represent some me the landlord at the tenant board?
It’s if it’s an owner, or someone who’s if it’s run by a property management company, someone who’s an employee of the property management company, or a legal representative and
owner of the property, a licensed legal represent representative like yourself, or a property manager? That’s right. Or a staff of the property managers. Okay, even if they’re not elite, they’re
going to ask who they are. Okay, what they do, and that’s okay. Depends on what they do.
Yeah, okay. Got it. So if they’re just
an admin person, or the receptionist, but if they’re in charge of collecting rent, and
yeah, they might get they might be fine. Okay. And then what you look for if I need to hire someone, because like, I’m like, I don’t have the time. I need to find Kelly, what do you look for? What questions do you ask to get a good legal representative? In Ontario?
Okay. Well,
you can throw people under the bus just don’t use names. I just don’t know. Because I know
there’s going to be good and bad because a lot of them know what to say. Because the questions you would normally ask is, are you experienced in this type of matter?
Okay, so we have to start with the basics, then you have to go through the basic really
do and they’re obligated to answer honestly. Because we are bound by rules and procedures and bylaws and all those things for ethics. I’m sure it’s right. But a lot of them are just starting out and they want the
God and they want the work.
Yeah. So they might know what to do. And they might not I had one recently where the person had reached out to me and felt that the location of their property was too far away. So she hired someone close by, and it has been an absolute mass from the start and Okay,
it’s a licensed paralegal, I just didn’t know the process.
It’s just delayed. So you really want to get a sense of their experience with with this specific type of matter. Okay, because there’s a lot of little things that people regular people don’t know, that can be done, or different tactics to try to resolve it or things to ask for the board or, you know, what’s the next step? Do some licensed paralegals in Ontario, is it fair to ask yourself, this is your focus? I guess? This is your scope of practice.
Yeah, scope of practice. Okay. Okay. And then, yeah, so basic stuff. It’s like, I’m just thinking about hiring like a contract, you always hear the right answers. But then when you hire them, you kind of never know. So like anything, get a referral, check them out, maybe maybe ask for a referral from them. Right, if some of their recent clients that you can call just to see how the process went? I don’t know.
Yeah, they might be bound by client confidentiality. Yeah, okay. Yeah. You can also roll the dice. Yeah. You can also look up on the Law Society website to see whether or not there’s any administrative suspensions or things on okay. Different paralegal. It sounds creepy,
but I guess if you get you get written up on
doctors, you know, when you rate your doctor, yeah, you check and see what everyone’s
got it got it. Okay.
Or, right. There’s a lot of us out there that have been doing this for a very long time. And it’s super easy to do. Men for us, it’s nothing, but there are a lot that have been doing it for a long time that have gotten by and they
haven’t done it the right way. Okay, so what are some of the services that you because you go beyond this, right? Can you talk about Yeah, what are some of the what’s your scope of work?
My major focus is any kind of recovery. So debt recovery for not just landlords, but also for businesses, different companies, I do still assist some people, people in the auto finance world who have loans, auto loans and things like that on the recovery. So also, they’ve given auto loans and people are skipping out on the payments on those. That’s right. Got it. And essentially, anything that’s handled in small claims court is my wheelhouse, got it? Okay, renovations, all those types of things that have maybe gone bad or?
Okay, I don’t think I’ve been anything in small claims court, which is up to $25,000. I feel like that changed like five years, because used to be 10. No more than 10 more
years. Yes. More
than five years. Okay, so
we’re talking, they’re still talking about raising it to 50. Yeah, inflation.
Inflation, I’m already talking about this stuff will be up to 100,000. Before we know, but Okay, so $25,000 or less anything that would be handled for $25,000 or less? Is it the small claims, right, okay.
Anything to do with small claims and handle and it’s not just debt recovery, I’ve done return of pets. That was an interesting case, because it was a couple and they had bought a pet together, and it was a gift to her and she wanted it returned and blah, blah, blah. It’s return of possession or anything that’s covered under Small Claims handle.
And, you know, you give people a lot of confidence, because I know I went to small claims with you with somebody here with I won’t mention their name. But it wasn’t a big deal. But there were small claims, and I went along for the ride. And I went in the chamber, whatever you call it, chamber,
right? I don’t know.
Okay, and they are in the courtroom. But this didn’t feel like a courtroom, because we were like sitting down to almost feel like an office.
Oh, it was in one of those side room. It was an aside the consultation room. Okay,
that was a consultation room. Okay. And we sat on each side and was the other representative. And you were great. Man. You just had all the answers. You were speaking with conviction. Oh, yeah. You go Kelly and I and you know what, just the fact that you’re on it compared to some other legal representatives that I saw that were kind of shuffling through their book and didn’t quite have the answer immediately. Like you were just precise on it had the clear answer. And the judge there because now it’s a judge and the judge there really had no question questions against you, because you were just so clear with your answers. And I just like, I felt like I was quiet in the background. I’ve sat in different court cases. I don’t know, maybe this is like a hobby of mine. It’s for people I know. And I’m cheering for them. You know, one time I sat in one that I was the only person it was in Burlington, okay. And there was a case going on. It was somebody on you. And I’m literally the only person and I’m just kind of like making faces at the guy like on the witness stand up. Because he’s talking like lies or he’s like, the way he’s explaining the truth was definitely different than the truth. I remember. Yeah. And but I wasn’t involved directly in that, but I kind of knew the situation. I remember just like kind of looking at like, you know, just kind of like a little summer. I’m like, is the judge gonna give me crap, you’re gonna force this guy. But I’m little there’s rose, and I’m the only and then I when? When our guy I don’t want to mention any names. One, you know, I felt like yeah, you know, you’re doing that look younger. But yeah, I was all by myself. During that was it was good. But ok. So anything to do with any sort of claims, small claims, Debt Recovery? And then how would someone and you can also hire skip tracers and private eyes and that kind of stuff? Okay. And then what’s the best way for someone to reach you right now for
you want to hit up phone? Sure. Oh,
yes. My cell is 905-466-3542. And my email is KH paralegal at gmail. com. Okay, can you repeat the email one more time?
KH paralegal at gmail. com.
Okay, awesome. Kelly. Thank you. I mean, I think we just kind of gave a nice little masterclass on eviction here. Really appreciate this. Anything else want to add? I think we covered what we wanted to cover
now. Just use your notices that are available to you. That’s all
treat it like a business. Yes,
yes. Yeah. Awesome. Kelly, thank you so much. You also teach a class here to Rockstar inner circle members. It’s like one of the most popular Yeah, and it’s one of the most I can’t believe it, but it is one of the most popular classes. It’s always full. Everyone raves about it. I tell everyone, you’re the Pitbull of legal representatives. And I mean that in the most positive way possible. But I do think that small landlords need someone like your self sometimes as guidance, because I know when Nick and I were doing this by ourself, we were like, lost and like, we would have tenants call us and sometimes kind of threaten us not anything mean or Well, it was mean but nothing big, you know, just on non payment, or they didn’t have to pay for x, y and Zed reason. And we felt intimidated and we didn’t know how to engage with Nami really savvy and they’re really savvy, but you know what, calling someone like yourself, getting some quick advice really kind of eases the tension and the anxiousness. So thank you for every Yeah, I don’t know how you do everything you’re doing stay so calm, like I mentioned earlier. So I just really want to thank you for everything you do for Rockstar inner circle members for investors in Ontario as a whole landlord, small landlords as a whole thank thank you like it’s a huge service that you’re providing so
very much. Yeah.
We’ll bring you back on soon.
All right, thanks.
Everyone’s hopefully you enjoyed that. If you didn’t catch Kelly’s email address or phone number, we’re going to have her contact information up at Rockstar inner circle calm forward slash podcast. So that’s rock star inner circle, calm forward slash, podcast. If you find the link to her episode there, we will have her contact information. She’s coming up with a new website. So when we have that will update that page with the website. But for now, we’ll just have the contact information likely her phone number will be on there. So if you’re tracking that down, that’s where you’ll be able to find that hopefully enjoyed that show. We tried to cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. That’s it for this episode. Until next time, your life your terms