When we discovered that there was someone roasting beautiful, amazing, organic coffee beans next to the gym we go to, we knew it would be love at first sight. Firebat Coffee was born when Gustavo and Leena decided to leave El Salvador and move to Canada with their children. They left behind their corporate lives and launched a new journey, in a new country! How daring is that? Just our kind of people! On this episode of The Your Life! Your Terms! Show, we sit down with Gustavo Castelar to chat everything coffee. We learn about the “third waves”, brewing techniques, the proper coffee to water ratios and why El Salvador is a perfect location to grow excellent coffee. If coffee is your thing then you’re going to love this episode, enjoy! You can find Firebat Coffee on Instagram @FirebatCoffee or at www.FirebatCoffee.com .
Okay, it finally happened. I found a coffee expert and brought him on to the podcast. So this podcast has nothing to do with real estate, but it has everything to do with coffee. So if you like coffee, even if you don’t like coffee, you should listen to this because Gustavo is a great guy. He’s from El Salvador. He came to Canada, he started roasting coffee up here. wait to hear his story. I’m just pumped to be able to share this with you. And I roped Nick into this podcast as well. So Nick is sitting on this and Nick is not nearly into coffee as much as I am. So you hear him as some very different questions and maybe just scratching his head as to why even care about this stuff so much. But if you love coffee, then you need to know Gustavo and his wife, Lena who is up here. He’s from El Salvador. She’s from Finland. They met.
they immigrated up here with their kids and I’ll let him fill in the rest of the story. So it’s a great chat. We’re just thrilled and honored to be able to support these guys in some small tiny way by sharing their story but they are roasting beautiful coffee here in Oakville and supplying specialty coffee shops from Toronto.
Hamilton so just great people. And with that,
let’s get on with the show. Are you ready to live life on your turn? Is it time to take charge? Real Estate, business building, the economy, health and nutrition and more. It’s the your life, your term show with Tom and Nick Arad’s. Are you ready? Let’s go.
Though. This is a big thrill for me personally. Oh, by the way, Nick, can you hear me? No, I’m having difficulty, can you? We always check because one time we didn’t do that. And I don’t think we recorded Nick properly or something. I forget if that was the case, anyway, there wasn’t a case. You just do it for a reason. I had to check that and we can record Nick. So we are live with Gustavo. Gustavo, you are the name of your company is fire back coffee. Yes. The actually the fire back coffee fire but coffee Corp. Yes. Okay. I am so excited.
Because anyone listening to this for any amount of time knows that I really am in love with coffee. And I’m in love with tequila. Those are the two things that I really really enjoy. So to have someone who knows their coffee is really a thrill for me. So Nikki, coffee or like actually good espresso because in our coffee mix not allowed to chime in at all. I’m going to tell them why coffee is not good. Right now I’m looking at all the studies know off is bad for you. And I’m just talking about coffee’s good or bad. I’m just talking my personal enjoyment. But what is it? No, it’s not like you don’t like an American coffee. You like an espresso? Good American coffee. I’ll enjoy. Oh, yeah. Okay, it’s just a good American coffee. Like when we’re cassava when we were at your place, and you had that pour over coffee.
Nick, you’d be in shock at the flavors of this coffee. Like, I always grew up to think bold, like, What would I say? Like rich and bold? Yeah, yeah, it is the good coffee. Yeah.
But Gustafsson go soft, good stuff. Was coffee missing your name properly right now? It kind of it was a row stubble go south. Oh, yeah. Some of good Starbucks coffees are
Like what would you like what are some of the tastes like you Nick you would be in shock they were like fruity. Yeah, yeah. So what’s going on with coffee right now that is called the third wave of coffee right and now like I told you that they were going into the fourth wave so what that means is first first wave was really the cans back in the day super smoky ashy coffee just the caffeine vehicle second wave was like the chains massive chains out of Seattle who started you know to bump up the game don’t even want to say their name and
I see where I see where you said okay and in they basically they massive fight the consumption of coffee in any No way. They paved the road. Yeah, they they did elevate the discussion for sure. Yeah, cuz it cuz compared to some other, you know,
donut shops that don’t say some donut shop coffee. I’m not a coffee expert by any stretch of imagination, but there was a difference. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Not even a taste. Just under
stomach. Yeah, there’s a difference I think Yeah, in you know what, it was more a difference in creating some sort of like cocktails type dessert kind of drinks and a lot of coffee and a culture around it and you go and sit there and enjoy it right? Yeah. So that was the second was second wave. And then the third wave started when we, you know, in the coffee culture around the world, we started to discover that there were much more flavors in the lighter roasts of coffee. So then, like the world separated into the espresso world and the poor overs for the extraction of all those like nice flavors that are quite exotic like berries. I was in shock tasting your Clementine, honey, molasses, Nicole. Where do the flavors come from the soil, the soil, the variety of the coffee like now you have with the how you know global farming is
Nowadays, so I think it’s the same that happened with wine. Like you have people bringing seeds from, you know, Kenya to what am I line growing varietals that were not there back in the days, but there are beautiful and there’s a lot of science behind them. So then if you eat producers that process them they get well, first of all coffee is a fruit before being, you know, the most people don’t know, but I think some people think coffee is like almost a seed. Yeah. Or like a or a green, a green event. I don’t think people think of it as a fruit. No, no, they red rice, it’s red is a red color, red color when it’s ripe, and then he turns into like a burgundy color which is the peak of the ripeness and that’s when when the sugars of the fruit are at the maximum that’s when you should collect them. But that requires, you know, visual inspection and people doing it and that is not possible in the mass produced the world of coffee. Basically.
You need cheap caffeine to fuel the world. So that’s that’s why this third wave and this new world of coffee exists. right in with this coffee. You really don’t need to add sugar cream. Like it, it becomes such a gourmet experience like wine and in it’s a conversational item, right? Do you feel this? Do you feel that? And it was shocking, Nick, when we had the samples at your office, your What do you call your is your roaster, the roaster when we were there and you did the poor over technique to how to, for us to enjoy those coffees. Some of the coffee was so light like I was I was talking to my wife. I’m like, Can you taste this coffee? Like I taste fruit in the coffee? Yeah. Which I never associated coffee with fruity tastes before like it was really light. Like you’re just you’re getting totally different taste experience in this coffee. Yeah. Okay, so it has to be picked at a certain brightness. Yeah, to get some of those flavors extracted. When you finally brew it is there
What’s happening? Yeah, that that’s what happens. And also, you have producers that are becoming experts in different drain methods. So usually coffees back in the days in Africa they did a process that is now gaining a lot of traction, which is called dry processing or natural sun dried. So you basically dry the whole fruit to create like a racing type of you know, dried
fruit. And, and then because of that process, you can get lots of Yeah, fruity notes like tropical fruit, stone fruits, peach, all that as opposed to what were they doing before as opposed to before they were washing all the layers of the fruit and just leaving the seed in drying the seed and then you get coffees that are more flatter more in the chocolatey world good for espressos. But there’s really not much fun compared to all these experiments that are taking place.
Nowadays, and And what about the caffeine content? Where does that come? That’s because because how the coffee is roasted or know that that is the genetics of the bean and every being of Arabica coffee is the purely Arabica no hybrids, no nothing. They have 1% of caffeine, which in a eight ounce cup will be about 100 milligrams. Okay, so let me pause here for a second. I just want to bring everyone up to speed with your story. You’re not born in Canada? No, you’re born were in the top other. How does someone from El Salvador? You’re married to a Finnish wife? Yes. Lena, correct? Lena? Yeah. So give us this. How do you go from El Salvador to Oakville? Ontario, roasting coffee in next to where we have our budget where we go to our gym. How does that give it give us the story here and then I’ll ask you more about the coffee. Yeah, yeah. So these they started three years ago, when we relocated ourselves to kind of in literally before that with kids or without kids with kids with
Right now they’re seven and five. There were two and four at the time. And it was very scary. But also, I don’t know they’re there is this thing that then you can call it the four year old crisis or or however you want to call it. But there’s, I think, for a lot of people in those during those years, you get all these questions like, what am I doing? What do I want to do in the future? Like when I die? Am I going to be proud of what I’ve done in all this sort of questions? Very existential. So I told my wife, the person or I want to How old is he right now? 4242.
And I told her, I want to quit. I don’t want to be doing this. I was working for a bigger line, a Latin American airline. And I was managing 13 airports in the US and also the Toronto airport. And I was you were meant managing Pearson Yes. Hilarious. Yeah, yeah. And
So, yeah, the mega summary. We one day, we just opened the map of the world and we said, Where do we want to go? When we found the coldest place you could find it was that he was the middle point between El Salvador and Finland, you know?
Okay. Well, everybody has a very unique reasons for choosing Canada. Yeah. Because I know it was it was super cold, just like Finland, if we wouldn’t have decided to go there. But, um, but yeah, and we like a lot. The multiculturalism in the very progressive way of thinking in Canada does. I was offered when I was in Berlin to go and live in Florida. And and I didn’t want to do it. Like, that’s not the right to live next to a Walgreens, you know,
having coffee there. She’s like, no way. You know why it’s one of the things that that I hear often from immigrants as well that are like, Look, there’s other places that have you know, like multi like
Different many different cultures living in the city but their opinion and was that in Toronto? It just it’s more well received. It isn’t as it doesn’t feel as segregated like everyone’s in their own little you know, and almost everyone’s an immigrant I think that’s wrong. Oh yeah, it’s kind of but it’s kind of cool that it’s recognized like that. Yeah, I mean it’s it’s it’s pretty cool. So I have Polish friends now in Canada, Polish friends from Moldavia Romania. Yeah. Well, Peter did we just did a podcast with Peter from the Czech Republic. Yeah, I mean, it’s just people from all over the world. Right.
Okay, so you decide Canada In Canada for navigating through our immigration process? Yeah. How difficult was that? It took two years because we we did the skilled workers like track and the the project was supposed to happen in Montreal, and we had everything set actually We leased the house with my wife in in Montreal. And after some days, they’re like, there’s again these hunch and I was sailing those years.
You know, with like intuition, like, I’m not gonna lie, I violated all the rules of business that I learned. Like I did an MBA my wife as well, but we just went with feeling and in this I tell this is how I talked to Nick all the time he just laughs at me I
guess there’s something that doesn’t add up but you cannot explain. Because so Montreal like we have some good clients from Montreal and stuff, but you’re giving me the perfect opportunity. It was probably the Montreal Canadiens the hockey team. You don’t want to be a Habs fan the Montreal Canadiens fan so you came to Toronto, where you could be a Toronto Maple Leafs fan so it makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, it was your gut speaking. Yeah. Like I didn’t like Montreal. It’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. It is beautiful. But I remember I told my wife Eve we had no kids. Or if we would be a students or something. Yeah, good point. Yeah, I can see that but not like cuz Yeah, even though I learned French from zero to fluent, just to make the project happen. Oh, wow. But even then,
And so finally, the last point of the equation is the person. Toronto airport manager lives in Oakville. And he was my friend so I came through a will I saw the city for the weekend. Wow, nice, beautiful and nice day. That’s crazy. And then you found a lease like how did you find where you’re roasting coffee? That was a another referral from the friend or something that was a realtor. a realtor found that but how did you decide what the coffee so you’re working you’re managing these airports for this airline? Wow, did you get into coffee when you drink your coffee is that the plan though? You’re like to Canada and do this because I was already in love with coffee and it started to grow. You know, I have this sort of personality that like I’ve been doing diving and motorcycling but when when I pick something like I start to scratch the surface and go down and deep and down and I see a lot of similar this way you and him get along I see
I bought a property now we own a real estate brokerage, you know, it goes backwards. Same thing. Yeah. So you start to get into, you know, the technicalities and the science of it, and then you get excited and you want to learn more and do more. So eventually, I said, you know what this has, to me, it has an ethical purpose, because El Salvador is the most deforested country in the Americas. Oh, really? I didn’t know. So no, Salvatore’s the size of Lake Ontario. Yeah. Yeah,
no. Yeah. So yeah, small. That’s more allow any that little piece of land you have 20,000 Coffee producer, most of them, like struggling like you have no idea with climate change with social problems with everything. So I kind of found a call in in my passion for coffee in the situation of everybody just owns a little piece of land is growing coffee. Yeah, basically. And Nick, you,
Gustavo, you were saying that
It’s the volcano how many volcanoes are in that small space about 120? Nick 120 volcanoes. I’m looking at it up right now I gotta look up this place so, so that many coffee producers it literally is independent farmers who are just growing coffee. Yeah. And they sell it to not locals, they’re selling it to companies in general like the good coffees usually the good coffees, I mean for exploitation, right. They are consolidated by exporters in Mills, that they process the coffees and then are shipped, you know, to big chains. But there’s real the specialty the jewels of the coffee, they are just direct traded. Okay, so is that so how are you sourcing your coffee? It’s a friend of yours. Yeah. So and my is like my brother. So he’s, he’s,
he’s a really good friend of mine. And he gave me a lot of support in this project. In he’s the one in Salvador who does the sourcing. He’s already a roaster and he has been in coffee.
For over about 12 years now. So with him together we started the the idea and the problem with a Yeah, we you know what I think I’m going to migrate. So you only moved countries you moved countries and change to Korea because he knew that’s insane if you’re going to start that’s inside again let’s do it all the way. No good. Good for you see, see, I’m the type of person that now that I hear that this story I don’t even have a huge coffee person but I’m like, I want that coffee. Yeah, like I want your coffee just because I know the story. And I just I think I’m like, oh man, it’s got to be good. Like if you know these coming from these private little guys. This guy knows his stuff. It’s coming up here. It’s not mass produced. I’m like, I’m in like,
I need to get rid of my Nespresso machine. Yeah. Do you make Nespresso pods with your coffee?
Okay, but we have to go back and do the multi cup tasting again, but which we’ll get to. But anyway, so your friend is actually the farmer they know he’s a roaster.
We both we bought a small farm like the three years ago, which is like a medium term project. So we reforest completely, only with very, you know, sick varietals like awesome varietals of coffee. We said you know what, this is going to be the future dream. And it’s going well, trees are healthy and Salvatore so deforested before we move forward it basically because of the population, so it’s the size of Lake Ontario, but he has about 6 million people inside. And many of the people in the rural areas they use wood for cooking. So as a fuel, so then you know that wow, such a small area, there’s urban areas and rural area, such a small country. I thought maybe it’s just all urban, but Okay, Okay, got it. Got it. So they’re using the word survival. Yes. Yeah. So again, then eat
Nobody really supports right like sustainable agriculture then more and more, they will take over what’s left, right and even the coffee plantations. Okay, so you have your farm there that you’re actually growing coffee. Okay, and that’s the coffee that you’re currently brewing. No. Okay, so tell us what you’re doing so on you have your own farms there where you’re going for coffee. Yeah, as you were googling up there he bought it. They bought a farm three years ago. We have a small a small farm, but that is like a medium term project. So that’s not the coffee that we’re bringing. We are working with a group of Wait a second. So through you we can buy our own coffee. What is it a tree that you plant use it in coffee tree you can buy so maker so the fruit of the of the coffee, it’s coming from a tree or plant and now it’s a tree? It’s a tree. It’s a tree, okay?
My gosh, Nick, we can buy through Cousteau. We’re very kind to him. We can buy our own coffee tree as an investment into his farm. This is brilliant. Yeah. Okay, sorry. Well, we’ll talk about that offline. Now.
Okay, so you you’re getting some other coffee from El Salvador where you know, the growers, I assume? Yeah. So right now it’s a portfolio of around between 15 and 20 producers. And so each one is doing different things. And that is reflected in the flavor. But we, for the most part, we work with couple of excellence producers and cup of excellence is like the highest, our worldwide award for coffee quality that takes place in producing countries under the same standard. So that’s where you have those tasters who are swishing around the coffee exiles and you’re reading all the coffee. Exactly. And that’s where they discover a lot of the notes and then as roasters, you can then highlight them with the roasting and why does El Salvador a good coffee producing country because of the volcanoes, volcanoes and the weather. So if from Mexico all the way to the
The mo the Amazon. That’s the belt where coffee thrives in, in America, basically. And that’s where you have Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, and it’s the altitude there. Why do you need the altitude? You need it because coffee ripens very slowly it takes nine months from from the flour to the fruit to be ready to be picked. So during those nine months, the sugars are building up inside the fruit and you need the temperature to be cool in that the coffee will have shadow no stress. So that that fruit turns out to be as delicious as it can be. Okay, God, so the so it’s the elevation, the elevation actually the cool the coolness, yes. Okay. Wow. Alright, so nine months and then it’s the coffee’s picked. And at that point, you are you shipping it up here right now? Yeah, actually we have the new container is good. In two days, it will get to Montreal.
How are you packaging it to make sure it’s good clean coffee. So Rodrigo, my friend and business partner in the top of the heap, the vacuum sealed, so he takes care of all those steps. So then when I received the coffee here, I just have like boxes with 88 pounds of green beans inside. Well labeled from which farm and everything and vacuum sealed in the those foil bag. Yeah, no. Okay, as opposed to burlap sack exactly where it moisture is getting in. And so you’re protecting it through the transportation process. Yeah, the best you can, I guess. Yeah, that’s probably the only way to transport it. I would imagine that that’s one and then we have seen like some Japanese
you know, buying the refrigerated containers all the way from one side of the road to Japan to preserve the quality. Wow. So Japan’s a big coffee drinking. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. They they are like I would say top
five countries in the science and in the push for greater experience in coffee. Japan, South Korea, Finland most the Scandinavian countries, Scandinavians like their coffee. Yeah. Okay, where are we Canada? Tim Hortons. We’re like, where are we top 25 buddies happening? is it happening? I know it’s joking around. And I’m a Tim Hortons fan to come on. I’m kidding. Of course. I’m a Tim Hortons fan. But downtown downtown there are more specialty coffee places opening up with different with more variety and specifically, there’s not too many here in Oakville, but I know for sure. Oh, yeah, Hamilton, you were saying for sure. Yeah. Yeah, right. Oakfield we have a few Yeah, there are a few but but yeah, for you know well. We’ll how it is right it’s it’s it’s a sober in for the most Yeah. So people I would say I can imagine the A lot of them they will drink their coffee on while they commute or when they reach their offices.
So who are you selling? Are you selling to the end you you’re selling to people like Tom Are you selling to like restaurants and or both, though everyone know, but But uh, yeah. So mostly what we do is wholesale. We also have an online store so we always ship our coffees. We have shipped coffees to Halifax to BC in many other places. But yeah, it’s wholesale and in Oakville, we work with Tribeca on lecture, sugar sweets, there also lecture in OK, so the shops that want specialty coffee, they’re finding you you’re finding them and you’re supplying nice places. You know, they have different third wave type coffee. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so can you break it down for me now on the coffee when it comes in to you so you get it shipped from El Salvador? you’re roasting it how often up here? So every week, every week we’re doing a new roast. Yeah. So if anybody would stop at the rosary, what we have there will be 15 days maximum of
Being roasted. So that also gives you a totally different experience with aroma with flavors. Why? Okay, so how is other shopping cart shopping? What am I saying? Coffee shipped up? Is it usually just in containers like house? cheaper copies? Can I need a coffee? How’s it how’s it shipped up here? So in a container, okay, he’s already roasted. No. Green. No, no, not yours. Like other coffee that we’re buying like I guess. Go to the grocery store go Yeah, that’s
that would be the grocery stores have been to where you can get you can get the beans at the grocery store. Yeah, but they’re roasted. So there are those that in South America somewhere know there are like big commercial roasters here in Germany in kind of that. They do. Yeah, but they get their beans in burlap sacks and they just do you know, dark roast or something like that. Not too much in terms of flavors, but it’s, again, it’s mass consumption. Okay, got it. So you are taking small batches. And then how
roasted to extract the proper flavors. Is it all to do with the been in the roasting is the same for every type of being? Or is it different? That’s the secret Thomas. I can see him smiling. Yeah,
no, but have you seen his roasting? machine? What do you think roasting? Yeah, that was so cool. It must smell nice in that place, though. I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So no it is. It,
it’s different for different beans and in mostly because of the density. So some beans because of the altitude on in how they have been, you know, grown, they’re very dense. So they can take a lot of heat, while others might be more fragile, and you have to be more gentle with the roasting. So that that’s the process and you discover that by roasting small amounts and seeing how the bean behaves and you cup them and you check for the flavors. And this is gonna be Yeah, that’s what this is going to be a labor of love because you have an MBA. So where did you learn about roasting coffee on YouTube right now. So I took
lessons in El Salvador, but really it was Rodrigo my my business partner will Polish me because he he has been judged for a couple of excellence judge for barista competitions. So he was already very advanced in the the knowledge of coffee and he has been roasting coffee for the last
10 years. And I think some of the ones that we tried from you have one cup of up excellence is some of the beans don’t hire me. Yeah, don’t hire me. As I say don’t hire me. That’s the one that was that the lighter roast one which I could taste the fruity flavors. Yeah. And without one, why are we doing a poor over? Is that the proper way to extract the flow? Because you know what, you know, you know why? I’m asking because usually I’ll do in the summer when I have time. I’ll grind my beans with a hand grinder. And I’ll do a French press. Yeah, by myself. I’ll grind it. Have a little scale because though you’d be very proud. Yeah. And mixing me do this takes me a long time. I grind deep. It’s very therapeutic. Yeah, grind. Then I weigh my grind. And then I put in my French press. And then I have the water
And the Croatian water is actually really good. No, it’s got mineral contents very, very good. And then I have my espresso and it’s a sorry, my French press. And it’s actually very, very beautiful. But here in Canada, I have an espresso machine. And I have a little less time. So I’ll just put the beans in the espresso machine and I’m really picky about my grind level if it’s not to find that to course in my water, and I’ll make a nice espressos that way. Yeah, that’s what I do in Canada. Yeah, but for you, I noticed you’re doing the poor over with paper filters, which I was confused by. Why are you doing that method? In all honesty, I find that I extract most of the nodes and the most of the potency of that coffee with the paper filter and going with goose neck cattle wearing the now that’s my next move that goose neck cattle definitely getting one of those. Yeah. So you go you go gradually, just because it’s it’s it’s chemistry, right. So you have you have
particles that they hold a note that of flavor that will react with hardware. So if you just pour everything right away or right, you’re going to make some sort of like a cone when you when the flow of water is going through so the walls will not extract as the center basically so that’s my little bit of coffee. That’s why you were putting a little bit of I know Nick thinks this is really yeah and I normally I think it’s brilliant. Okay, so you’re just putting a little bit of water time the one thing I’m confused about is I know that there’s a health benefit to coffee that I thought with paper filters, I had read that the paper filters actually absorb some of the oils that from a health perspective might be very beneficial and you want to use a metal filter and not a paper filter but you were explaining the paper filter what you know I forget why do you like the paper filter, so baby filter, yes, it will capture a lot of the oil but also will capture the even the most tiny like
Dust like particles, right? So your cup of coffee will be super clean. Okay, so this is the cup of excellence level that you’re going through but you will be surprised like when when the you know the the gurus right i are copying the the coffee’s they just pour a hot water in a very coarse grind setup like the French press and you have seen the
YouTube videos with a spoon and have you seen these guys do the cooking test now they like they suck up the coffee with like a spoon and then they solar below like Yeah, yeah. And there it’s like why and then they’re like doing all this stuff. It’s crazy. I don’t think this is crazy. Listen to you, like make the coffee. I was like man, I should really get a coffee machine and start enjoying some of this coffee just because it sounds so good. It’s hot. You know the thing is the catch is the time here in Canada. We’re rushing around so much in the morning sometimes you want to press a button. Yeah, I know you think this is insulting right now. But but but this is where if you can get good, good beans. You know what I’m
I just think that in that what my advice is always, you know, this is more of living according to your terms, right.
So, like, in my opinion, if you enjoy your coffee, then, you know,
just take some minutes to do it. It is. It is weird once you learn about it, like I was telling, Nick, Nick, I think he knows this. Gustavo, I think you know this that I was experimenting with my new espresso machine, all the different grind levels against all the different water types and all the different bean types I could acquire. Do you know how many variables that is? I yeah.
I was I was growing up my nieces were over my sister in law was over my brother. I was feeding everybody coffee. Yeah, everybody was freaking out hopped up on coffee. But you know, we really could start to taste I could understand when the grind was let me get this straight. I think when I went to find on most beans, I was getting sour. Sour. Is that right? Yeah. And I was going to course it was becoming bitter. Yeah. And then I noticed if I put in my purified river
osmosis water that the flavors weren’t as flavorful in the coffee as if I put in a coupon or some of the Italian mineral waters. Yeah. So then I thought, Oh my gosh, if I get the right grind level with the white water level, even from my simple espresso machine that is grinding in real time. Yeah, I can get a beautiful espresso. And I started feeding some of my neighbors are these Italian guys great guys. I started giving them my espresso and they were tasting this and it wasn’t bought, you know how you most people associated good espresso with just bold and like kick like, and my espresso.
It’s a little less bold. It’s actually not completely bold, a little less bold. And you could you could taste the flavors. Yeah. Now when I go somewhere and I get an espresso and it’s just a bold, harsh kick. I’m like, God, these guys are lazy. They’re lazy. They didn’t try all the settings they didn’t test the water because even an espresso which I know everybody thinks is a bold coffee. You can really get a nice cup of espresso. Yes Is it how often Am I am I am I correct on this in in the espresso
There’s also like in finite. Okay, and you will be so surprised that in in coffee shops like in Japan or Norway, you can have espressos that have an acidity that would be close to a lemon juice. It will be like why do I wonder but that’s you know, different people different tastes. And and yet acidity in coffee something very desired in the worldwide right off of coffee. So yeah, and so this third way we have a coffee. Sorry. Let’s get there. So this third wave of coffee let’s talk about this is growing because I guess it is it like, you know, it’s been around for last five years and it’s kind of, you know, at the same level or you’re just seeing more and more interest in it because I guess the way I’m equating it to is the rest of the way the rest of the kind of food chain is gone. And there’s a lot more interest in people from you know, not so much local in this case because the coffee beans up here, you know,
it’s non existent, but but like from a more kind of
Smaller producers more curated that type of thing. So you’re still seeing overall not just I’m not talking about your business I’m just overall that trend is kind of growing in North America as well. I think I think worldwide and I think more and more people they want to know what they put inside their bodies and they want to know that somebody that’s a good way to put it. Yeah. trend. Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s why that’s why it’s interesting interest me, you are now you know, you hear about NCT oil and this and inorganic and, and in small breweries for beer and in,
in my opinion, you know, I would say I cannot say 10 out of 10, but maybe nine out of 10 places that they engage themselves in like small batches, craft all that it’s always better eat the taste is so much better. So I think that’s what’s that. That’s why now Nick, But to your point earlier, I can go I was in San Diego at a breakfast restaurant. And I had a regular like I would call it an American cup of coffee, but it was
A great cup of coffee and Nicholas I generally good restaurant. Yeah, yeah, they were organic food that was eggs. It was like a little boutique breakfast place. And they serve this coffee I sat there with and I generally don’t like just like a standard kind of cup of coffee. It was amazing. Like I enjoyed that cup of coffee with my breakfast and because I’m usually more an espresso type guy. But Nick, just to your point when it’s a good coffee, I can appreciate it now because I think I’ve gone through so much experimentation myself like you have yet where you’re like, Okay, this is a good cup of coffee. I know when you have a bad cup of coffee. You’re like, Guys, be surprised. What about all this mold and mycotoxins? Yeah, what about
the BS or nonsense that exists but once again, if you are going for a lot for lighter roasts, you cannot hide it. So we always say in the lighter roast, you have the truth of the coffee. If it has beautiful notes, you’ll taste it. If it has mold. You’ll be
Get all these weird notes like vegetable notes or earthy notes in that is the signal of bad produced coffees. But again you dark roasted and you just say Kelly because it just brute force yeah it’s basically just not it so the dark roast is a cheap and easy way just to kill it all like you can mask every our mascot you probably said something it started isn’t there a new thing as far as like blah isn’t a blonde thing start? I don’t know. I don’t mean you know, I don’t know if that’s good. Isn’t there something lighter? See, I don’t know anything. No, they do have like a blonde i think is that new Orlean? You know it’s yours now. That’s how that’s how after day I am on coffee. I only a few years behind ya get here. Okay, so somebody starting if they wanted to play around with coffee, I would think at home if they were to buy your beans, for example, with the easiest way than to be a French press. Yeah, that okay. So how many can you what are some rules of thumb like how much how much coffee would you put per cup like how much ground coffee it
in grams, yeah, so I always tell you know, the best cup of coffee is the one that you like. But as a starting parameter, yes, as a starting, I use personally and I suggest always to start with a 14 to one ratio. And what that means is 14 ml of water per one gram of coffee. And then you you Do you know the proportion if you want to do like, you know, 300 and ml cup of coffee or half a liter, then that that would be the proportion I always find end up putting a bit more coffee when I try to read these rules of thumb and I experiment that because, and again, I’ll let Nick be my proof. I sit around all summer for weeks every morning testing different amounts of coffee to the water ratio. And Nick, I know you’ve seen me measure this stuff. Oh, yeah. And sometimes I go too far. And one time I gave his wife a cup of coffee. Yeah, she was coffee with me. And I said Diana here I you know, here’s this morning’s brew, you know, here you go. And I’m
I could handle it Okay, and she had it and what she was wired out of her mind or something. No, I think I just went overboard because I was just I was I was trying to see how much coffee I could get away with. Yeah, and yeah,
I went a little too far and she was a little bit
wired from the coffee. But ok, so 14 to one ratio, you grind those beans for those people who don’t make a French don’t know how to make a french fries, can you walk people through it because it’s fairly simple and I think it’s a nice pure way to enjoy it in again. So in another like good rule of thumb is that a normal tablespoon will hold about eight grams of coffee. So again, you know, you can use that to do your calculations. But um, but yeah, do you just grind it for French press very coarse. In then yeah, just boil the water in when it has boiled just wait about a minute because the temperatures should be in the order of 9596 Celsius, so below
Boiling and then you pour the water the desired amount of water and then you wait I saw the grounds in the coffee grind in the ground coffee in the French in the French yeah and you pour in the water water and you just stare it a little a little bit yeah and then you put the top of the French desktop you don’t plunge it you don’t blink and you wait three and a half or four minutes in all honesty I wait six minutes Oh, that’s the time that I that I enjoy I feel that blowing my mind right now I’ve ever waited six minutes then you extract more of really of the flavors but there’s so if you wait that long do you also get more caffeine? Or no? Yeah, a little bit more. Like with with the longer extraction you you will get always a little bit more like with cold brew, for example that stays 24 hours brewing and Nick will try this cold brew there. The cold brew was natural fuel. Oh, you told Nick if he’s going to do a big workout or couple Yeah, how do the gym go here and you
have your cold? No, no, I think what it’s clean
I’m wondering so like the one we
know because I get pretty cranked up on coffee but then when I come down off the caffeine, it’s like I kind of like it’s just not good. Like I’m not happy about it. I’m not feeling completely there like I just I’m like I really feel like I go, I have these peaks and valleys Yeah, and that’s why I’m like I just don’t like this stuff but that has to do with the with the varietals of coffee. So in in mass produced coffee, you know, capsules and in commercial chains. Usually you will find in the coffee either a percentage or full
of robusta beans. In robust the beans, they are cheaper than the era because they can be sometimes labeled as Arabica because there are a lot of hybrid.
But also, those beans has, they have doubled the caffeine as the the Arabic. So it may be doesn’t sound too extreme. If you say double digits.
But it is because in a cup of coffee instead of having 100 milligrams you have you know 200 300
It’s a lot so then people get all these jitters and and all these weird reactions but it’s because of bad caffeine like it took me a while to understand because also with like with tequila you’d be like how much alcohol is in this bottle? Yeah say 20% but if it’s a bad 20% you will be destroyed right The Hangover and
in you know I’m sold I’m already thinking we can have some tea if you need some tequila we can have some tequila.
I need to go buy a bit of French press and try some of this coffee. I need to bring some I just looked on your I looked on your site too. I want this one with the chair. This is the one you were talking about the good stuff with the cherries What was it called? dawned on Jaime, honey Africa and red cherry. You have some downtime and you have some Don Julio? Yes. But I just want to understand something that robust of being so it’s a mixed in with Arabica beans a lot of time Yeah.
As a filler because of the, in the commodity price, the the robusta is way, way cheaper than the Arabic so there’s always a temptation, you know, to put 20% 30% 40%
off robusta beans inside of because I found it Yeah, when I have a good coffee, I don’t feel like I’m getting a lot of caffeine. I feel like it’s a controllable amount of caffeine. I don’t feel like super cranked up when I have, but I’ve had other cups of coffee where I don’t know the source of the coffee, and you haven’t and I feel like like I’m walking and I yeah, I feel like my heart I feel like the Bloods going through my veins. I feel like jacked up on caffeine. And it’s different on the caffeine energy I get from a clean cup of coffee just feels constant. Yeah, it feels like a nice level of energy. But ok, so there was the French press and the equipment that people should use. It’s just like I think Bodo is one of the bigger French press makers, right? They make those little glass things and you press down. Excellent. You can get it on Amazon on Amazon. IKEA. IKEA has them. Yeah. Okay. Can you
Little scale off Amazon to to measure coffee but if this scale you know becomes so much of another gadget then you don’t have so much counter space like I would use the rule of thumb tables, tables point eight grams man you know one gram less one gram or it’s okay and then a candle to borrow a coffee a plastic spoon or wooden spoon to mix the coffee or metal metal yeah I think I was feeling like I was getting my classic man Where do you
get my glasses and I think I was like it was all hot I’m like I’m gonna crack this thing it was stirring a little bit too hard.
Okay and the poor over how does the poor over work you need one of those where do you get those little falls looking things that sits on top of a glass so eat again it can be online or at your local coffee shop and what’s the
60 of the 60 bc the generic generic name or not some brand name so that comes from Japan Aereo be 60 Oh can hire me a brand has a lot of different devices for coffee which are awesome.
But yeah so the difference with the French press is that with the that cone you have to be actively brewing your coffee okay so if it’s something that you do in the morning and you just want you know maybe to finish you to get ready for go to work like the french fries you can just put the timer and that’s it. So I find that very convenient. But if you want you know to be able to enjoy the process and everything to me go with the the cone in the paper filter in the paper filters Where do you buy those they come with the with the cone okay but again same same place online or the local coffee shop they buy one of these v 60s is it also a coarse ground know that it will be meeting what we say medium, grind, medium grind,
sorry, yeah mixing up all the lingo here medium grind mean okay, paper filter, medium grind, and then you pour over gently not so there’s a flood of water in there. So the extraction process is proper. Exactly. So it will take you how long to do a pour over this.
It takes four minutes that’s how long you guys were doing the poor over four yeah so you pour over a little bit you wait you pour over another little bit in wait that’s how it goes well you can you basically pour like three times the amount you know the blood that you wait because of the the shape of the cone and the resistance of the ground the coffee grounds to allow the whole amount of water to pass through that’s okay got it. And is it also a 14 to one ratio on water? It is Yeah, I always say start there. And you know, according to your own decided like if you want like more stronger one then of those does it matter? I guess it’s better if you grind the beans fresh right before you make the Yeah.
I saw that you sell the ground coffee. So how long did they How long does it stay good in the bag of coffee once its ground. So if if you take care of it like you know the
Bag basically protects the bean from moisture, sunlight in oxygen, which are really the elements that work against the coffee. So once you if you have the bag untouched, so I would say within three months, unless you’re a professional to greater coffee connoisseur, you can’t tell the difference. I don’t think so. Okay, but you’re saying a professional can? Yep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
But I would say, you know, take it within within a month. And if you grind your, your, you know, like your weekly consumption of coffee, that’s fine. That’s sometimes we do. I think a lot of people will do they’ll grind how much they need for the week or the week and then stored and where what would be a good thing to start you if you have an airtight container, just any airtight any air So okay, well, so you don’t need to do it fresh, then you can do it all. That’s what I’m saying. If you really want it, I mean, yeah, okay. Yeah, that would be like the best but if you really want to talk to
About the Nam with Gustavo. I’m on this side. I’m a part of the third. Yeah, I can tell the difference in my questions and your questions like, what does this pour over? And how Why do you have to pour for four minutes? I’m like, How the hell do you grind the beans? Yeah,
no, you know, I again, it will be I guess the same with with many gourmet products. But if you start with a very good ingredient, then even though it might lose something, it’s still going to be great. Yeah. Okay. That’s, that’s like me my meat. I can talk. Oh, I meet for a long time. Yeah, yeah, I don’t visit my cows. I go to my cows and talk to them. I’m like, I’m gonna eat you soon. You me and you were gonna, you know, we’re gonna hang out my dinner table. He chases some chickens around my neck. Give me her eggs. That’s a good example. You know, some people I don’t eat meat. But if you know they, I’ve seen people that they they are passionate about it. And they always tell me you know, if you have a good steak, you don’t burn it. You don’t overcook it. Oh, you gotta try to overcook it.
Don’t throw a gallon of sauce on top of me All right, it’s exactly the same with coffee. No need of sugar No need of cream No need of any of that if the coffee’s really like any good quality stuff I mean it’s no different than the killer. I was drinking some that tequila on the weekend with some some neighbors were over you get some of your neighbors that good stuff. Yeah, no, I must have been drinking too much that day. And and they drink it and they were there. Wow, this is not what I was expecting as far You know, as a colder temperature. It wasn’t it wasn’t it wasn’t freezing cold. It was cold but it wasn’t like freezing cold like it because it’s nice reverse like that. But it was it was a good temperature. And they were shocked right now. And then they quickly wanted another one.
Some people don’t like tequila, I have some Don Julio 1942 at home chilled. And so if you don’t like tequila and you have that tequila, you’re like, Okay, but but then the real way Nick and I will like to have it sometimes as was you know, warm so you could taste the flavors and stuff but someone who’s like just getting into it will kill it and give it to them. They usually
You’re like, Oh, what’s that? Yeah, that’s not the tequila I’m used to. But with the coffee, I find, part of the frustration around a good cup of coffee is I guess it also makes it really fulfilling when you get a good cup is playing around with the grinds. Like when I first got my own hand ground, I didn’t understand how to set the little internal mechanism to get finding grounds and coarser grounds. So you end up ruining a few cups of coffee and because you can only have a few cups of coffee a day. Yeah, you know, you end up like, Damn, I messed that coffee up. And I’m kind of like pissed off, you know, and like, I don’t know if this happens to you, but I’m like, shit, I screwed that up. And I’m disappointed in my coffee and it kind of ruins my day a little bit. I’ll just tell you the truth. And then the next day, I’m all hyped up again. And like, Okay, today, I’m going to get it right. And I try to grind it perfectly. When you nail all of the things properly. You just feel like you hit the jackpot and then you can keep it then you know all the things that you’re going to do. But when you ruin it, it’s kind of like just frustrating. Yeah, you’ve gone through the same Yeah, yeah. India’s press over. We call that the guy
shot when you just, but it doesn’t happen again. Yeah, like every gotcha gotcha Yeah, I feel like the god shot will happen for me after a specific meal that you then I have the espresso perfectly kind of setup and it just kind of hits perfectly. Let me ask something else and I don’t know if this is true or not are the the quality of beans that some other countries will take? So let’s say like the European Union, do they hold the coffee beans that you’re allowed to import to a higher standard than like Canada does?
I wouldn’t really I don’t have any location that would signal that Yeah, no, because the for exporting there. There are some like worldwide aspects. Okay. You have to fulfill the in terms of size defects, everything. So I don’t think so. Okay. I just think that in North America, traditionally, you know, in until the very, very recent years
That beans have been very much of like the same kind of beans. I say like bold and rich, like, yeah. Not you cannot do so much with them. Right. And I just think that that Europe has in, in some places in Asia, they have been opening these channels for more exclusive, which is a little bit of a disservice I find because I find here in Canada, if you give somebody a cup of coffee and it’s not bold and rich, they think it’s not a good cup of coffee, because they’re used to bold and rich. Yeah, so if you have a light, flavorful, almost like Nick a fruit, fruity type flavor, some people will be like, oh, what I’m tasting it’s like wine. I mean, wines come a long way to different people. It doesn’t you know, you don’t have to like this type of wine because it’s from an old world, you know, vineyard, right? You can like a Chilean wine that’s a lot cheaper, but it’s certainly cheaper because it has the name behind it is a new venue. Just we’re not there with coffee yet, but oh, no, I agree. I agree. But I just mean I think people
We’re more open to stuff as they learn things. But it’s just because you’re battling. Like in wine. It wasn’t the same here, you know, all the different restaurants have the same thing. You have the same deal but you’re battling like what two or three main providers of coffee like you’re trying to really change. That’s a hard consumer habit to change. Yeah. But then by the people wants the people breakthrough like you. There’s no there’s no turning back. It’s fun. You know, it’s a bit of a distraction, I have to admit, and it’s a little bit meditative. When I go through the process of brewing the coffee. I do find it very relaxing for some reason. Yes. grinding the brewing. It sounds ridiculous, maybe. But I do find that way. Yeah, no, I know. You’re. So I have to ask you something. Now in my espresso machine. Can you put beans that are not like an espresso roast in an espresso machine? Yes. What am I actually Mmm, I get my getting the right flavors through it though. So espresso release. It means by pressure. Yeah. Okay. So it’s a process of brewing. So technically, you can put anything okay.
Okay, the only thing that’s going to happen is the espresso. It highlights the the acidity in the lighter roasts. So if you have a very like roasted coffee and you make an espresso it’s gonna be very acid. Maybe even sour. So once again that’s so funny you say that because the roast I was playing with before I met you was a lighter roast. And it was coming out sour. That’s what started me down the path of changing my ground. Yeah, cuz it’s Nick. I had that lighter roast I was getting and it wasn’t a suppressor. Oh, so I’m like, what’s wrong with this coffee? It’s like sour or something and then you can go coarser in adjust. You can adjust for how Yeah, but there’s a limit. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
there’s a range that you can kind of play with. Uh huh. Okay, so you can do a non espresso kind of roast. You just are might have to play with your settings a little bit. And eat will always be as bright as we say, you know that terminology with wine is going to be citric or acid. While if it’s
medium to dark or medium rose the you will feel more the chocolaty traditional notes that will blend nicely with OK. And then so on and express a proper espresso grind should be fine. Fine, like yeah, a powder fall. Yeah. Okay, so now one more question for you on the stovetop machines for years when Nick and I started this business, I needed some coffee at night to stay up because I was getting up at like 430 in the morning and we were staying up till midnight and trying to you know, had kids and we’re starting a new business and I was losing it. So I needed coffee later at night than I usually had. So I got the stovetop, mocha. Is it a mocha machine they call the mocha pot percolator. What kind of coffee I always thought it was like an espresso. What am I because it is pressure base. Yeah, what am I actually brewing in those machines for those of you don’t know, it’s a machine that sits on your stovetop, everyone’s seen one. It’s usually silver, kind of like a skinny middle, it goes wider at the bottom and top. You put the coffee grinder grinds in the middle, usually finely ground Yeah. And the water at the bottom you put on your stove and then it
The water boils and the steam provides the pressure. Exactly, exactly. So that is in theory it was an alternative for the espresso was very famous espresso you know it was very famous in Spain Portugal but what happens with that method is that because of the temperature because water need they eat has to boil to come up again so you’re kind of harming the so the temperature is is 100 degrees and then eat burn the the ground so it tends always to be bitter
regardless of the coffee that you use, I I have used it eat has its place can be enjoyed as well but that’s the trade off. Okay, so tell us the story of fire back where did the name come from for fire back coffee. So you know it took a long time really to come up with the name like you are soul searching basically. And part of your identity. Yeah and and and we will
Want to something with fire again because of the amount of volcanoes that we have in how important it is for coffee the volcanic soil
so we kind of had that part reserved something with fire and then we we started Yeah, what can be a symbol that can project our spirit? Right and bats? They are pollinators by by the way. So are they? Yeah, they are pollinators they play an important role in our ecosystem. Yeah. And they protect the forests in, in in rain forest. So basically they they keep the insects a day in they spread the seeds always a little bit further, little bit further so the forest can grow. And when we were again, embarking in this project, we’re like, you know, we were using other senses than the usual ones, the violating all the rules of business and everything. Like kind of we felt a little
Blind in a way but with this kind of inner sonar right that is telling you do this do this and so the bat
in the Mayan mythology which is the the you know the ancient civilization of our you know that territory, Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, it means change change of habits. So experiencing the coffee that we usually were getting we were like No, you know what? We can change this that we can do something different. And yeah, very humble small animal but the does a lot of things. So we chose the bath and just merchant cool girl so for anyone listening to this, what would you like them to know about coffee that we haven’t discussed yet? Is there something you know just about it that you always find yourself repeating yourself about coffee?
I think that it’s a fruit most people don’t know it’s a fruit. Most people don’t know
You can enjoy a really good cup yourself using like a French press. Yeah, I say maybe people don’t.
They are unaware that the vast amount of flavors that can be packed inside a coffee bean that’s what I’m always in the house but these are like watermelon. How come this got into this? Like it’s the most complex beverage on Earth. So one of the ones that you’re selling off your website, what are the flavor profiles of some of the what you I know you have an espresso roast we have what else do you have your lighter roast? Yeah, most of them are in the medium to light world so we have one less Rana’s which is like red fruits and in notes of nugget, we have the Shangri La which is citric Clementine and molasses, type of coffee that don’t high me, predominantly honey Africa, red cherry acidity.
In we have the Calera which which is the
Awesome. It’s a very chocolaty with an acidity that would resemble like raisins or the skin of prune.
Me lady, which is, again, chocolatey cacao nibs,
we have a decaf option. What’s your most popular among the corner sores eat each one that right now we are.
We don’t have stuck for that. It’s the rocks. Anita, that was berries, period like do you have put strawberries blackberries in right now? I feel like Don Jaime’s getting that place just because of how exotic it is. And I’m going to sneak into your store zero story and have some of these I’m not going to tell you I’m just going to show up one day Yeah. So that that’s one and then for the the people that they’d like more bolder coffees, it’s the emulating, okay, let me late and where would be is it to go to the website if they want your coffee? Do you want to call it one of the store or is it just a website? The best place to go to Yeah, I would say that the website
is usually with our retailers. They ordered some of them. So if you want to have the whole line, it will be the website. Okay. And that’s a fire bat coffee calm, right and on Instagram, it’s your handles fire back coffee as well. So I guess people can ask you even quite I don’t want to say this, but I guess someone could throw a question in Instagram. I know. Yeah. You’re active on your Instagrams super active. Yeah. Okay, I Nick, I feel like there’s more to talk about. But in the interest of time, I think we’ll wrap it up there. Is there anything else is more coffee talk than I’ve had in my whole life.
And you will, ya know, it’s funny when we travel in the summer, our families go to Croatia, and I pack my beans. I take my grinder I leave I left it over there now. So I have multiple multiple French press. I have a scale that I bring back and forth. And I just can’t tell you it’s a really, it’s it’s it’s fun, you know, to go through this whole experience of testing different coffees. Oh, so now to run into you and know that you’re roasting them right here in Oakfield bringing him up from El Salvador. And what do you call it? Is it a single source
Or, yeah, so that is now the fourth wave of coffee, which is very Nick, Nick, we just got the third way, yes, the fourth way, or the first
Now that the fourth wave is really a more intricate relationship with the producer, it is more okay kind of like a farm to table in the restaurant world, but not only you go once a year and you buy it but more to be, you know, we not in a medium to long term relationship with like I was joking investing in the farm and that kind of stuff, guys that’s happening where people are just taking a proactive approach. Yeah, yeah. The world’s changing. Yeah, that’s cool to hear. Yeah. I,
you know, I think, yeah, we want the world where people can do what they what they love to do, right? Yeah, absolutely. That and I know sometimes in urban centers like a big city like Toronto, sometimes you feel separated. So to get these little moments where you can feel connected back to agriculture.
Turn the world in that way. I think it’s really important and healthy for all of us. Yeah.
Gustavo, am I saying your name properly now? Gustavo. Gustavo. Yeah, thank you for I mean, this is you didn’t have to come in here and do this and share this. But your passion for this really comes out when you talk about it. So really, thank you. Welcome to Canada. We are honored to have such a beautiful family like yourself coming and working in Oakville. So feel blessed that we have crossed paths and thanks for putting on such a great show for the team when we had all the team tasting the coffee that that was amazing. Thank you. No, thank you. Thank you very much. We’re so happy here. I’m not gonna lie. Winter is a stuff
but overall, it’s it’s a great place. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you.
Hey, everyone, it’s Tom gratis, hopefully enjoyed that talk. I definitely did. And listen, this is your life to your terms podcast. So we sometimes talk about real estate but sometimes we talk about just living life on your terms and sometimes that involves a lot of coffee talk. So that’s why we discuss coffee. But if you are listening to this and you do want real estate specific information, the best place to go will always
Be rock star inner circle calm, we’re putting up new articles regularly new videos regularly have access to our classes. From that website, you can download free copies of four different books now, on that website. The latest book just went up a couple months ago. Some of this information has taken us years to figure out and we’re putting into books that we’re giving away for free. And the reason that we do that is that we hope that you will download the books and at some point, you will think that we’ve shared enough value with us that you might explore working together with us in some sort of capacity at some point in the future. That’s why we’re doing this. So you can go to www dot Rockstar, inner circle.com to get all your real estate information needs fulfilled. That’s it for now. Until next time, your life your terms